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Offline chadiga

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« on: January 03, 2012, 05:14:04 PM »
dear sisters and brothers
I've done pretty much about the battles and shafts, and the absolute cruelty of mankind, when it comes to animals. Not only as meat consumers, but also as a creatures, as living beings. I came across a statement that Godused "sacrifice" (the  negative meaning  in the sense of sacrifice and today's pre-Islamic massacre)  in contrast to the expression of meaningful killing, which means also a victim of Islam. The starting point was the article on the slaughter of brother Joseph.
Here are my thoughts in line of the article:

Is 'Thakaytum' a synonym of 'Thiba / Ziba?'

"Forbidden to you is carrion (Arabic: maytatu) and blood (Arabic: damu) and the meat of the pig (Arabic: walahmu lkhanziri) and that on which any other name hath been invoked besides that of God, and the animal that has been stifled is beaten or death (Arabic: mawqudhatu) or killed by a fall or by horns blow or by a predator broken, except that which ye have slaughtered (Arabic: Thakaytum), while it was still alive, and forbidden to you is all that was slaughtered on the altars Götzendiesstes.. (Arabic: Thubiha) And you is not allowed to seek to discover through divination what the future may hold for you, this is sinful Verhalten.Heute have those who are bent on denying the truth All hope lost respect your religion turns out not because they respect, but I have respect for mir.Heute vervollkommet your religious law for you, and have given the full measure of my blessings and willed that Selbstergebung shall be your religion in what I am. However, the terms, driven by extreme hardship and not by an inclination to sin, behold, God is much forgiving, a dispenser of grace.

- Thakaytum: root: DHAL / KAF-THAL-WAW
- in classical Arabic dictionaries equated with designation battles to life in a certain shape to finish, exclusive of other  forms.
- It does not address a particular form. It is clear that the word thakaytum a permitted type of killing is contrary to Thiba, which describes the killing of more than victims.
- But I wonder, why then has God made this difference we see in the top line? God uses each word very precisely, he uses every word exactly what we can look at many different locations. It raises the question why he has done it here too?

where the word 'Thiba' or  his compositions was used in the Koran?

Thiba / Ziba root: DHAL / THAL-BA-HA; divide to sacrifice his throat cut, slaughter, massacre, slaughter in a large number, the ritual slaughter

The Quran gives us an example by seeing how the word "thiba" was used. In  Sura Al Baqara we see, that this was a order from God, the people however, always ask for more details until it was extremely difficult for them to find another suitable cow.
The word Thiba is used here to describe a required slaughter of God.o

Battles versus victims

And behold, Moses said to his people: Behold, God commands you to sacrifice a cow. (Arabic: Tadhbahu root: TH-BA-HA) They said: Did you spot us about? He answered: I seek refuge with God not to be so ignorant. ...

Moses replied: Behold, he says it should be a cow, not further prepared to plow the soil or to irrigate the crop, flawless, without drawing in any other color. They said: Finally your gerau brought the truth, and then sacrificed (Arabic: Thabahu - root: TH-BA-HA), they, although they had almost left undone. "

- God demands the sacrifice
- probably refers to a Mosaic law, which prescribes to slaughter a cow in an unsolved murder.
  This law is found in the Old Testament: Deut.21.1-9
--It is a command to be executed
 -it is a victim not for food

And one day he looked in vain for one of the birds, and so he said: how is it that I do not see the hoopoe? Or he could be among the absentees?
If this should be so, I will punish him very severely or kill him (Arabic thabahu), unless he brings me a convincing excuse

 -The question arises whether a prophet of God would kill a bird just because he was not present?
 -It seems not to be a literal  act, rather then allegoric . This is also the opinion of many Koranic commentators (Ex. Muhammad Asad)
 -The word here is  clearly seen not in the context of food, hunger
 -used negatively, as a threat, senseless act

37 102
And one day when the child was old enough to become to be part of his (father's) efforts, the latter said: O my dear son, I've seen in a dream that I offer you (Arabic: athabahuk) should: consider the matter, what would be your view. He said: O my father, do as you commanded, you will find me, hen God wills it, found among those who are patient in adversity.

-Also here is the word used to describe a  sacrifice, what was ordered from God.
-Abraham thought it was prescribed by God
-No association with hunger or food profits
- clear audit

37 107
And we ransomed him with a huge sacrifice (Arabic: bithibh azim)

Also here is the redemption of the victim pointed to the cult: it is about the fulfillment of a requirement
the victim has nothing to do with food production.

And remember the time when we rescued you from Pharaoh's people who afflicted you with gray samee suffering by slaughtering your sons (Arabic: juthabihuna) and spared your women, what a terrible test was possible from your Sustainer. (See also 14.6, 28.4)

-the word is used here to describe a massacre.
-Clearly negative
-senseless bloodshed
-is called a test

Due to the real sacrifice

So you proclaim to all people the pilgrimage. They will come unto thee on foot and on every type of fast steed, far Removed from any point on earth coming
to learn that they like a lot of what they will be useful. And that they may glorify God's name on appointed days over which the cattle may have always provided them with it. Then eat thereof and feed the poor, unfortunate
 First Because of the pilgrimage connected with the "sacrifice"
 Second the self-sacrifice for the cause of God (righteousness, peace, kindness, donations) is in the foreground
 Third here the "new" victim explains:
- It is sacrificed in order to say thank you
- In order to present the life and death of his
- To remember God and all life is death of him
- To be aware of the importance of life: it is not easy
  mindlessly kill, slaughter, but deliberately "sacrifice" to bring it in
  The name of God to slaughter and most important:
- You may eat thereof and must feed the poor

 - the senseless sacrifice of pre-Islamic period is replaced by meaningful victims, not to get something, but to give.

Place of the real sacrifice

And every community we have determined an act of worship, that they may glorify the name of God over what goes wrong with cattle He may have supplied. And your God is the One and Only God, why surrender to him, and tell you the good news to all who are humble
all those whose hearts tremble with awe whenever God called, and all those who patiently endure whatever of evil befalls them, and all those who continually perform the prayer and spend on others of what we prepare for them as supply.
And as for the victims of cattle (Arabic: Bud'na), we have prescribed it for you as one of the symbols erected by God, where is good for you. So glorify the name of God over them when they are lined up, and after she fell lifeless to the ground, eat of their flesh and feed the poor, who is content with his lot, as well as the one who is forced to beg. It is to this end that we have made to serve you, your needs, so that you may you have reason to be grateful.
But keep in mind: never reached their meat nor their blood God: it is only your awareness of God, which reaches him. It is to this end that we have made it subservient to your needs, so that God may you praise her for all the guidance, with which he has blessed you. And you proclaim these glad tidings to those who do good.

- Here it becomes clear where the "new" victims may be performed as a ritual: only on the pilgrimage. The battles at home is not supported by the Koran
- The point is mentioned again: to be aware, one of the gifts of God and the gift of life is senseless killing of God as sacrilege (no slaughtering of sacrificial altars) sentenced
- The victim as a symbol of life and care: There must be killed-one killing of an animal for food without eating it or feeding the poor is not allowed
-The reference to the flesh and blood is very important: it shows us that the custom of sacrifice to achieve something (forgive sin, blood sacrifice, to sacrifice truth commitments, Mosaic sacrifices, killing for no reason) is abolished!

The concept of sacrifice in the Koran

3.183 fire victims abolished

As for those who say: behold, God has commanded us not to believe in any Messenger unless he comes to us with burnt offerings, say: Even in front of me are you messengers came with all evidence of truth, and even with what you say, why did you kill them, if what you say is true?

-The Jews knew the atoning sacrific,e the burnt offering and the sacrifice of law which has been mentioned in Surah al Baqara. They did want separate from their ancient laws and accepted no prophet, who promised them relief

4.66 Selfsacrifice is required / human sacrifice just as Selfsacrifice

But if we prescribe for them: Give up your life, or leave your homes, very few of them would do it - although if they did, to do what they have been admonished, it truly for their own good and would be likely to strengthen them very much.

-Here  is pointed at a human sacrifice: the Selfsacrifice for God and emigrating (Hijra)
-This is a lawful form of "human sacrifice"

5:27 sacrifice of Abel and Cain

And also give them the thruth setting forth the history of the two sons of Adam, how everyone was offering a victim (Arabic: kurbanan) , and it was accepted by one of them, while it was not accepted by the other. And Cain said, I will surely kill thee: but said, behold, God only accepts from those who are aware of his conscious.
-It is never actually mentioned a killing, it is only the term "kurbanan", which can be many things, according to the Bible there was a grain offering.
-After the root, it can also be simply  a pious act, a sanctification, must have been something that both brothers have done for God. What ever it was, it was only accepted by one of the two.

Conclusions to th-bh-(thahaba sacrifice) and (slaughter) Thakaytum

-(Sacrifice) the process of TH-B-H refers to a sacrificial rite, as was usual in pre-Islamic times.
-The process that is described  with TH-B-H , always has to do with "wanting"; as sacrificed, either to the gods or God, be pleasing, or something to gain (rain, good harvest, forgiveness, enlightenment, truth)
-TH-B-H has a negative aspect, it also means senseless killing ( the victim is not eaten, but  burnt or frequently drank only the blood or presented to the gods, that it rots ...
- It means also slaughter massacre, bloodbath.

-The term 'Thakaytum' gets the other hand, the importance of killing as it is right. The aspect of food intake is in the foreground.
-The Koran connects the two terms in this way that the ritual sacrifice is aligned with the Thakaytum. The negative aspects (as mentioned above) are eliminated, so that today a victim (Th-h-b) is equated with (thakaytum).
-Thus, the two terms was originally not synonyms, the Islamic Deen but  puts them  on the same stage by rejecting any  meaningless animal sacrifices

thank you all for reading  and sharing your opinions.salamu aleikum!
because i maked this post like always with help from the Google Translate, i'm sorry and for the Verses it will be better, if you read them in a proper translation. (the original is from the German 'die Botschaft des Korans', M.Asad, Edition Patmos )