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Offline w3bcrowf3r

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When i read 4:43 i came to the conclusion that: We should not come near the communion while intoxicated, until you know what you are saying, nor if you had an intercourse, unles a wayfarer, until you wash.

Why would God let Jesus Christ, and Moses, David and all other prophets drink wine? And let not Muhammad? Is wine really forbidden according to the Quran? Or did the sectarians invent this false doctrine? Why would wine be forbidden if God is promising the believers rivers of wine in Paradise?

Same goes for wearing gold and silk. The sectarians say that we can't wear them. But God is promising such things in Paradise.

When i read 4:43 i read that i shouldn't pray while intoxicated, until i know what i am saying. Which indicates that we can drink. But we shouldn't be drunk when praying. And if i read the Gospel i read that drinking wine and eating bread at a specific day symbolizes the blood and flesh of Christ. We read that other prophets did drink as well.

How do you guys think about this analyses of the verse. Please stick to Quranic verses, and lets not use 'i think we shouldn't drink, or my family won't except it etc.'


Repent, the Kingdom of God is at hand!


Offline w3bcrowf3r

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Re: Drinking wine according to the Quran? It's actually permissible?
« Reply #2 on: January 11, 2019, 10:30:53 AM »
A lot of prophets did drink if you read the Scriptures. Christ told us to drink the wine and break the bread that stands as a symbol for hes blood and body that he sacrificed for us, it's all in the Gospel as well. So it's not completely forbidden, else God wouldn't tell us in the Quran that we shouldn't come drunk to the prayer, but wait until we are sober.

I also think it's more a cultural thing, to not drink. A lot of trouble would be caused in families if you started telling them that you can actually have a wine.
Repent, the Kingdom of God is at hand!

Offline Duster

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Re: Drinking wine according to the Quran? It's actually permissible?
« Reply #3 on: January 11, 2019, 04:54:34 PM »
So it's not completely forbidden, else God wouldn't tell us in the Quran that we shouldn't come drunk to the prayer, but wait until we are sober.

Shalom / peace

Did you read the articles above? The word used is 'Ijtanabu' which is the same word used to forbidding shirk and idols!!! How clear does the Quran need to be??????

Also re: 4:.43 regarding being so called drunk when coming to prayer brother Joseph has also made the point which is strong ......

Quote
004:043
“O you who believe! Approach not prayers with a mind befogged (Arabic Sukara), until ye can understand all that ye say..”

In fact, even a cursory analysis reveals that the above verse does not even make use of the word 'khamar'. The Arabic word 'sukara' that is used is not restricted to intoxicants. Rather, it captures all those conditions in which a mind becomes befogged and where clarity is compromised. This can be due to anger, confused judgment due to grief or indeed, any situation which may distract one from mental clarity or focus. Therefore, any mental state when focus is compromised falls within the understanding of the term 'sukara'. Intoxicants are merely one example.

It can be argued therefore, that the real essence of the verse is not so much with regards 'sukara' or the gradual prohibition of intoxicants. Rather, the focus of the verse is to underscore the understanding that one must be in a state where they can concentrate on their prayers and know what they are saying during it.

This understanding also begs the question of whether reading a prayer in a foreign tongue with no comprehension, mind or focus is akin to reading prayers with a mind befogged? Is this then (and as such), a violation of verse 4:43 above? A valid question indeed.

I don't see why one would need to go through such lengthy justifications including quoting other scriptures to consume it  .....its what the Quran says what's important for believers ......