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Offline Mubashir

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4:34 and translators
« on: February 09, 2012, 11:48:54 PM »
Salams

Upon reading 4:34 we find translators using words like beat, scourge, go away, give examples, separate, hit, ignore/disregard/push, beat them (lightly), strike (lightly), smack, chastise, go to bed with them (when they are willing), etc.

What should be the right term for Wadribu Hunna? Why use the term beat (for infidelity) when divorce is allowed in Islam [besides there are other punishments for immoral behaviour]. Which husband would want to be friendly with a wife who is unfaithful or loose with her morals?

What about the following translation be Dr Kamal Omar:

Dr. Kamal Omar

The men are Qawwam (protectors, maintainers and guardians) over women because of what Allah has bestowed more to some of those (who constitute the community as men and women) in comparison to others, and because what the men spent (on the family members) out of their earnings (and wealth). Therefore the righteous women (are those who are) devoutly obedient (in accordance with the limits set in the Book of Allah), acting as guards to the hidden aspect of what Allah has guarded. And those women (from whom) you (husbands) apprehend their attitude of disruption and break-up " so deliver them the Message, (if still they do not correct their attitude) leave them (unresponded in their sexual desires) in their beds, (if still they do not mend and the breakdown of the family-bond is imminent) wazribuhunna [then bring forward to them (the suggestion for dissolution of marriage)]. Then if these women obeyed you (the way Allah desires in His Book) then do not seek against them any outlet (to get rid of them). Surely, Allah is Most Elevated, Most High.

Would appreciate your help in understanding this verse.

Thanks.

Offline Truth Seeker

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Re: 4:34 and translators
« Reply #1 on: February 10, 2012, 08:24:46 AM »
Salaam  Mubashir,

I think there are a couple of points here. Whether beat in this context 'fits' with the rest of the verses dealing with marital issues and whether 'idhrib hunna' can mean anything but 'beat'.  I understand that an 'an' is usually required to make the word mean 'shun'. This is absent from the text. A relevant article of Joseph acknowledges this but argues that 'an' is not always necessary to understand the word as shun.

I feel that 'beating' does not fit in this verse, especially when looking at the overall subject of marriage in the Quran, which God expects us to conduct with mutual respect and consultation.

The point you raise about when a wife has been immoral, is addressed by the Quran separately under 'fahisha'. 4:34 is dealing with 'nushuz'.

Does Quran really sanction the beating of wives? http://quransmessage.com/articles/does%20the%20quran%20sanction%20wife%20beating%20FM3.htm

A Deeper Look at the word 'Dharaba' (to beat) in context of wives. http://quransmessage.com/articles/a%20deeper%20look%20at%20the%20word%20dharaba%20FM3.htm



Offline chadiga

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Re: 4:34 and translators
« Reply #2 on: February 10, 2012, 08:53:21 PM »
salamu aleikum

i found a interesting article about linguistic and the changing of the meanings from arabic words:(part)

The pre-Islamic Arabs possessed a culture with much greater affinity for poetry than prose, and that was the medium in which their entire linguistic treasure was passed on from generation to generation. In contrast, what today is called 'Arabic literature'was primarily composed during the Abbasid period, the same period during which were compiled the various books of hadith, Quranic tafsir, history and biography. Many volumes of Arabic literature, grammar and linguistic science were produced and extensive Arabic lexicons were compiled. It is quite interesting and ironic that all these works (with few exceptions) that comprise the earliest written or prose literature of the Arabic language were actually produced by non-Arabs.

The student of history would be well aware that during the Abbasid period of Islamic history, numerous foreign concepts began to permeate all facets of life. These foreign concepts influenced and shaped society in ways that ripened the climate for the seizure of political power by the Abbasids. Their politics were infused with these new foreign concepts and ideals, further helping to perpetuate them. It is only natural that once this happened, tremendous political pressure would then be applied to inculcate these ideals into every other facet of society. It is precisely because of this fact that the literary products of that time, despite their outward appearance of Arabic form, were actually foreign/non-Arabic in their inner true nature. This is how the Arabic language, in the earliest stages of its systematization and study, was turned into a vehicle of non-Arabic ideals. A more formal description and study of this phenomenon has been excellently provided in the work of the late Ahmed Amin Misri, 'Fajr al-Islam.' In it, he claims 'Undoubtedly, you will agree with me that Persian literature had cast Arabic literature in a new light.'

It follows that once the meanings of Arabic words were affected in this manner, as expected, the understanding and interpretation of the Arabic words of the Quran were impacted as well. Since the books of Quranic interpretation (tafsir) were compiled during this period, they too became prey to these external influences. This is how the Arabic words of the Quran came to take on altogether different meanings than the ones existing at the time of its revelation. In addition to this general external (Aajami) influence upon Arabic, there was also another very important reason leading to this mutation of meanings.

When the first books of Quranic exegesis were compiled in the 3rd and 4th century A. H., one major technique used to interpret any important verse of the Quran was to examine its so-called 'sabab nuzool,'the reason for the revelation of the verse as recorded in narratives. These narratives would claim that some matter would come to pass, and in answer, a verse of the Quran would then be revealed. In this way, the stories ascribed to a Quranic verse became a more important focus of commentary than the actual words of the Quran. As a result, the meanings of the Arabic words in those Quranic verses were shaped and molded to fit the narrations ascribed to it. As time went on, newer books of tafsir would not dare depart too far from the original and oldest books, and in this way, this style of Quranic commentary was perpetuated through history, gaining a semblance of credence and authority. By claiming the narrations, and hence, the exegesis sprang from none other than the mouths of the beloved Prophet (s) and his companions (ra), these tafseer were made all the more irrefutable. All of this is in spite of the fact that the majority of the involved narrations are weak or unreliable (according to the hadith sciences), leading the occasional frustrated scholar, such as Ahmad ibn Hanbal, to lament that 'narrations of war and slaughter and tafseer are totally unreliable.'Despite these facts, these narrations continue to dominate books on Quranic commentary and its resulting philosophy; therefore, it is not difficult to conceive that if these untrustworthy narrations are the basis for determining the meaning of a Quranic verse and of the Arabic words used in that verse, this would lead to a distortion of the true meanings of the words, thus obscuring the true meaning of the verse from the eyes of the reader.

This point is best explained through a specific example in the Quran. 

4:34. Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other¦ (Pickthall)

Here, the word 'qawwaamoon'is taken to mean 'in charge of,'even though according to the language, the meaning is 'those who provide the daily bread.'This latter meaning implies that there is a division of labor between men and women, and men are duty-bound to earn a means of living for the family. So how did the meaning shift from provider to dominator or ruler? 

An glance at one of the most highly authoritative books of tafseer, written by Ibn-Kathir, will shed light on exactly how this transformation of meaning took place. In his tafseer of the above verse, Ibn Kathir relates various accounts connected to the revelation of this verse. 

Ibn Abbas claimed that 'qawwamoon'refers to the fact that women should obey men  Hasal al-Basri relates a story in which a woman came complaining to the Prophet that her husband had struck her. Just as the Prophet was about to pronounce that her husband should be punished, the above Quranic verse was revealed, and then the Prophet said that there would be no punishment for her husband In another narration, a man and his wife came before the Prophet. The woman complained to the Prophet that her husband had struck her and there was still a mark on her face. Just as the Prophet began to say that the husband should not have done so, the above verse was revealed. Upon this, the Prophet claimed 'I willed something but Allah willed something else.'

There is a hadith in which the Prophet is reported to have said 'Dont beat Allahs slave women (referring to women in general).'Thereafter Umar (ra) came to him and said 'Oh Prophet! Having heard your command, the women have become bold towards their husbands.'Upon hearing this, the Prophet allowed the beating of women. When the men began beating their wives, many complaints arose from the women to the Prophet. The Prophet then said 'Many women have appealed to me complaining of their husbands abuse. Those men are not the best of you.' Ishat ibn Qays relates 'I was once a guest of Umar (ra). It happened that an argument broke out between him and his wife, and he hit her. He then said to me Ishat, remember three things I will tell you that I learned from the Prophet. Do not ask a man why he beats his wife, do not go to sleep until you have prayed the Witr prayer, and I have forgotten the third (i.e. the narrator could not recall the third)  In one narration, the Prophet is reported to have said 'If I could have ordered that any person bow to another person, I would have ordered the women to bow to their husbands because of the tremendous weight of right the husband has upon her.'

So as one can see, traditional Quranic commentary made on the basis of narration and tradition changed the meaning of the word 'qawwamoon'to mean ruler or dominator, perhaps even something beyond that. This interpretation is not unique to Ibn Kathir but is repeated in other works as well, such as Zamakhsharis al-Kashshaaf, in which he equates 'qawwamoon'with 'musaytireen'(dominators or overlords). In tafsir Jalaalayn, the synonym 'mutasalliteen'is used, in other words those who control, command and rule women. With such a predominance of this interpretation, not surprisingly, this meaning of 'qawwamoon'eventually worked its way into books of language, eventually pervading the literature of the Islamic world and the education of Islamic scholars and the masses. In this way, Arabic speakers and Arabs alike lost touch with the true message of the Quran.


the complete article you can found
http://www.aboutquran.com/res/lex/Lexicon.htm

thanks and salam