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Offline Lobotomize94

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What is a "grave" in the Quran?
« on: December 23, 2019, 07:30:50 AM »
My understanding is a grave means a literal place of burial.

So when the Quran says:

[Quran 36:51] And the Horn will be blown; and at once from the graves to their Lord they will hasten.

but the Quran also says

[Quran 17:49] And they say, "When we are bones and crumbled particles, will we [truly] be resurrected as a new creation?"

So this tells me the resurrection will not be in our original bodies, we will be in a different body as a new creation (perhaps a similar creation with new set of bones/appearances etc). And there does not seem to be any evidence in the Quran that God will return us to our original form that we died in--more like we will be resurrected in soul into a new body as a new creation.

Now the question is: Why does the Quran mention Allah reviving us from our "graves" if our physical graves will disintegrate as the Earth/universe are destroyed and "lifted with one blow of the trumpet". The grave will not exist. Also many times graves in the Earth get destroyed by natural causes and the grave won't exist either. So why does the Quran say that Allah will bring us out of our graves if not all dead humans are in graves? Pharaoh also did not have a grave, he died in the sea...

Is the Quran talking about a physical grave or a non-physical spiritual grave? And can the Arabic word for Grave be used to describe a non-physical grave? Tell me about the Arabic and whether it necessitates that the grave mentioned in the Quran must be a physical grave?

Offline Athman

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Re: What is a "grave" in the Quran?
« Reply #1 on: December 27, 2019, 08:31:02 PM »
Dear Labotomize94,


To start with, it is a well-established fact from the Qur'an that in whichever form they may have been (17:49-51), the 'dead' shall be 'resurrected' back to their Lord upon a 'call' from Him (17:52) most probably in the form of a 'single scream' (36:53) via a 'sur' (36:51) delegated to arguably a 'caller' (54:6-8) messenger angel from among those responsible that Day (69:17). It is in the response to such an awakening by part of those awakened as captured in the next verse 36:52 that the nature of where they have been is cursorily generally hinted - a 'resting/ sleeping place' (marqad). This is arguably not necessarily a 'physical grave' for all deceased. In my humble opinion, it is in this sense that the 'ajdaathi' in 36:51 should be understood. This does not however mean that 'jadath' (plural: ajdaath) does not mean 'physical grave' nor should it necessarily be translated as 'sleeping place.' The context is key. It is also interesting to note that when the Qur'an employs the term 'ajdaath,' those awakened (humans) from their 'sleeping/ resting places' are portrayed to immediately rush towards a startling call (54:7, 70:43). The call is thereafter shown to be that of a just recompense (36:53-54, 99:6-8).

On one hand, we note the term 'qabr' (plural: qubuur) as being commonly used to explicitly refer to a 'physical grave.' See 9:84 as well as 22:7. When 'qabr' (grave) is used in connection to resurrection of the dead, the Qur'an refers to the deceased as 'those in the graves' - 'man/ maa fil qubuur' (22:7, 100:9). It is interesting to note that it is those who are generally in the 'graves' - qubuur (as now perceived) that the Qur'an mentions to be brought forth that Day from their 'dead' state and not necessarily from their graves. Thus, in such a context referring to resurrection in connection with the term 'qubuur,' the Qur'an is interested with the 'dead' and not the 'graves' in which they are.

On the other hand, even if we admit the meaning of 'jadath' as being a 'physical grave,' I don't think there can be much of any conflict within the Qur'anic perspective. If such a meaning is admitted, verse 100:9 will as a result be interpreted in reference to an event post-recreation of the Universe (21:104). Therefore, on that Day (100:101), just in the same manner to obtain (100:10) 'that which is in the hearts' of arguably those humans recreated anew (17:49) shall 'that which is in the graves' from the newly recreated Earth (21:104) be scattered/ dispersed (100:9). The reason being; God will have inspired it to (99:4-5). To briefly put it clear, if one is to argue against the Qur'an portraying the 'dead' being resurrected by God from another newly recreated 'earth,' they have to similarly argue against God obtaining 'previous contents' of human 'hearts' (swudoor) from the newly recreated humans. In response, God asserts that He would have inspired that earth to do so (99:4-5).

In summary therefore, from my humble perspective, it doesn't matter whether the Qur'an mentions a physical or non-physical grave when it talks of resurrection of the dead. In my opinion, the term 'ajdaathi' in 36:51 is used to denote 'non-physical' graves otherwise as 'sleeping/ dead states.' It is not necessary that the 'graves/ sleeping states' in 36:51 be understood as 'physical' ones. Rather, the context dictates the opposite (36:52).

Hopefully that helps insha Allah.


Offline Beyond Tradition

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Re: What is a "grave" in the Quran?
« Reply #2 on: January 08, 2020, 04:14:06 AM »
Dear Brother Athman
Salamun Alaikum. Ultimately you have doubt of the best meaning of qubbar’
My humble opinion on if ‘qubar’ interpreted as physical grave then punishment in the grave will have a sense as Quran’s perspective. “Al haku muttaka suru hatta jurutu mulma qubir “
Here what  is the best meaning of ‘qubir’ ? Is it after the death ? Or, when after the graved or burried?
How you explain the word ‘Immediately you will know after the die’ or burried ?
Is there any arabic word in any verse where God telling explicitly about the physical grave in no connection with resurrection?

Offline Athman

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Re: What is a "grave" in the Quran?
« Reply #3 on: January 09, 2020, 02:16:30 AM »
Dear Beyond Tradition,

Salaamun alaikum,

Respectfully, if duly considered within the ambit of my response, there's no doubt whatsoever as to the primary signification of the term 'qabr' from my perspective. I have clearly indicated this in the response of mine above to 'Labotomize94'. In my humble view, I also respectfully find no warrant of an exit door to embracing the traditional belief of grave punishment. This is regardless of whether a 'qabr' is taken to mean a 'physical' or 'non-physical' grave.

As noted in my response above, Qur'anic verse 9:84 attests to the Qur'anic and primary meaning of 'qabr' as a 'physical grave' where the Prophet (pbuh) is advised not to stand by (wala taqum) the grave  of (qabrihi) a confirmed disbeliever nor pray for them after their death. To underscore such a primary rendition, it is noted in 80:21 where it is shown that God made man not to be thrown 'to the beasts' when dead but ordered/ permitted that he be buried into the ground (fa aqbarahu). This is again ratified in 5:31 where God sent a raven to demonstrate to a lad how to respectfully fare well his dead brother.

'Maqabir' on the hand is a plural for 'maqbr'/ 'maqbratun' which refers to a 'cemetery' or literally 'a place of graves.' In 102:2, I find it used in the spirit of a reminder so that one does not get blindly carried away by the ups and downs of the pursuit for worldly treasures till death suddenly overtakes them or one of them hence taken to the place of graves (maqabir) on this earth. I see this a reminder just in the same manner as the verses 23:99-100 are.

However, verses 102:6-7 are rather narrated in context of the Day of Judgment/ Justice where the inmates of Hell shall be questioned about the Bliss (102:8). It is noted that they will see the Inferno (al-Jaheem) with the seeing of certainty (102:7). This is also confirmed in 56:94-95. This shall strictly happen on the Day of Justice (yaum ad-Din) as noted in 82:14-15. Further, reference 82:18-19 expands on the nature of the Day.


"Here what  is the best meaning of ‘qubir’ ?"

Most definitely, 'maqabir' in 102:2 is 'a place of graves - physical.'

"Is it after the death ?"

Of course it is.

"Or, when after the graved or burried?"

It is actually till one is buried or sent to the graveyard/ cemetery (maqabir).

"How you explain the word ‘Immediately you will know after the die’ or burried ?"

Respectfully, the verses do not claim so. Rather, while verses 102:1-2 are narrated in the sense of a general warning against obsession with worldly pursuits lest death suddenly snatches away ones breath, reference 102:6-8 advances on what follows after when they are resurrected on the Day of Judgment.

"Is there any arabic word in any verse where God telling explicitly about the physical grave in no connection with resurrection?"

Sure. See verse 9:84 as mentioned earlier.

Hopefully that helps and clarifies my position God willing.