anti hadith resource idea

[Wakas]

salaam all,

I was thinking it would be nice to have an anti-hadith resource that lists the many many errors/problems in one place. Ideally in a categorised manner (which can be done after the list is made).

It would focus on "sahih" Bukhari and Muslim only.

So for example, anyone can list the following (with reference):
each hadith that conflicts with science
each hadith that conflicts with history
each hadith that conflicts with Quran
each hadith that conflicts with another hadith
(or a book/article that lists the above)

Any statement made by known Traditional Muslim scholar that is negative on hadith
Any youtube video that is negative on hadith (citing the aspect discussed)
Any online article negative on hadith (citing the aspect discussed)
Any forum thread discussing a specific anti hadith aspect
Cite a anti hadith book
There are some good articles/posts on this website for example.
etc


So there is a potential to lists hundreds of entries, probably thousands.

Once the data is collected it can be turned into a dedicated website/resource (possibly even a book and/or an app).

If anyone here thinks this is a good idea we can collaborate on this. Simply start listing the info in this thread.

Also I am willing to fund the project if need be, e.g. website/app/book/etc.

[fireheart47]

Wa salaam,

This is a great idea. If there were such resource, I think it should have a disclaimer or warning so people don't get hurt by others, and an invitation for people to study the scriptures themselves.

While debating online, I've seen people find contradictions in Bible, which from my perspective are not equal comparisons, because the person didn't put verse into context of chapter/book/history or because of misleading translations. This caused me to question the accuracy of the graphic found online of all the contradictions of the Bible shown in a timeline format with arches between contradicting stories.

Despite contradictions, I still find value in these ancient books and believe the spirit of God is within them and that they can reveal to us important truths about our societies and about Allah, our One Imageless God.

May Allah help you all in this effort and guide you to make merciful distinctions.

Sincerely,
Fireheart47

[fireheart47]

Wa salaam,

In the previous response I would've liked to have written: Allah, our One Imageless Living God.

Sincerely,
Fireheart47 

[Wakas]

Scientific errors in hadith:
wikiislam,net/wiki/Scientific_Errors_in_the_Hadith
https://lampofislam.wordpress.com/2019/11/04/how-hadiths-contradict-science-and-reason/

e.g. (albeit some of these are non sahih bukhari/muslim)

1. The sun prostrates before the Throne after sunset
2. The sun rises between the horns of Satan
3. The sun sets in a spring of warm water
4. The sun moves around the Earth and stops a while after sunset
5. The gradations of strong natural objects are: mountain, iron, fire, water, wind, and man
6. God frightens people with eclipse
7. The moon produces its own light
8. There are giant goats in space
9. Earth rests on a whale
10. There is a huge gate to Heaven somewhere in the west
11. Nile and Euphrates rivers flow from heaven
12. Earthquakes in Najd region are accompanied by the rising of Satan's head
13. Thunder is a cloud-driving angel
14. Noon heat comes from hell-fire
15. No one can predict when it will rain
16. The first man was a 90 foot giant
17. Racial diversity and physical differences are due to different soils used to create Adam
18. Each embryological stage lasts 40 days
19. The gender of an embryo is assigned at a later stage
20. Saying 'God willing' before sex would guarantee a strong male child
21. A child resembles the parent who discharged first
22. Nobody knows a child's gender before its birth
23. Babies cry at birth because of Satan's touch
24. Birth marks are caused by the evil eye
25. Yawning is caused by Satan
26. You oversleep when Satan urinates in your ears
27. Satan sleeps in your nostrils during night
28. There is no infectious disease
29. Skin eruptions can be treated with spell
30. Looking at the sky during prayers leads to blindness
31. Fever is caused by the heat of hellfire
32. Love for worldly things causes blindness and deafness
33. Camel urine is a medicine
34. Black cumin cures all diseases
35. A housefly's wing cures diseases
36. Scorpion stings are cured by spell
37. Drinking honey cures diarrhoea
38. Water from truffles cures eye diseases
39. Cupping cures unknown diseases
40. Eating seven 'Ajwa dates protects from poisoning
41. The evil eye or nazar causes harm and can be prevented by incantation
42. Mankind's sins darkened the Black Stone
43. Crowing and braying indicate sights of angel and satan
44. Black dogs are devils
45. Monkeys practice stoning adulterers
46. Spinal bone never decays
47. Water is not polluted by dead dogs, menstrual clothes and rotten things
48. Non-Muslims have seven intestines while Muslims have one
49. All women are deficient in intelligence
50. A black spot appears on the heart of a sinning Muslim
51. Graves of true Muslims are widened to 70 cubits and bodies of hypocrites are squeezed
52. Jinns asked the Prophet for the remains of the human food


#####

contradictions in hadith

wikiislam,net/wiki/Contradictions_in_the_Hadith
https://astudyofquran.org/wp/10-the-implications-of-hadith-for-islam/10-3-ways-the-hadith-contradicts-the-quran/
https://asimiqbal2nd.wordpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/contradictions.pdf
https://www.mohammedamin.com/Community_issues/How-reliable-are-hadith.html
https://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/234967648-bukhari-contradictions/
https://islam.stackexchange.com/questions/35221/how-can-seemingly-contradictory-ahadith-still-be-classified-as-sahih
https://qurantalk.gitbook.io/problematic-sahih-hadith/contradictions
http://quranic.org/84/
https://qurantalk.gitbook.io/hadith-refutation/list-of-problematic-sahih-hadith

[fireheart47]

Dear Wakas,

Thank you for composing this list. It is useful in many ways.

For example, item number 9 reminds me of a story from where we live in the USA. Native Americans said the Earth rests on a turtle's back. We were taught about this story as kids. Later as an adult, I wondered if Native Americans observed earthquakes and gradual changes in the landscape, which they described allegorically and symbolically as "a turtle's back", because it moves slowly. Perhaps there is another reason. Your #9 inspired me to search "geysers in Saudi Arabia" on DuckDuckGO, where I learned about "desert blowholes".

Of course, the core ideas of Islam are simple and true. Your list confirms what Joseph Islam and many others have observed.


Sincerely,
Fireheart47

[fireheart47]

Dear Wakas,

Thank you for all your work to differentiate the Ahadith from the Qur'an. You have helped me understand the importance of primary sources.

It seems the Hadith are a source of conflict, between believers and non-believers, and which prevent non-believers from becoming believers. Much of the anti-Muslim rhetoric comes from people who do not know the difference between Qur'an and Ahadith, like myself not too long ago. Yet, the Ahadith also seem like a good secondary source, even though they seem to require a scholarly approach.

I believe all our scriptures benefit from a scholarly approach. Because scripture requires linguistics and historical comparison to make sense of everything.

The main scriptures (TaNaKh, Bible, Qur'an) seem to have a historical innate value and represent a world of knowledge, which adds context and wisdom. The Qur'an is important, and adds context even to the Jewish and Christian perspectives. Another reason why the Qur'an is important, is because it values simplicity and clarity of word.

Despite the many inspired secondary books about the Bible in the Christian world (ex: Hymnals, Book of Mormon, Course on Miracles, obscure ministries like Witness Lee, etc...), the Qur'an is the revelation of an Arab Prophet. The word "Hebrew" (those who crossed over from Mesopotamia to Egypt) and "Arab" (nomad, also similar to the word "erev" or west) seem to have the same connotation.

The name Gabriel seems to repeat across the scriptures as a source of prophetic knowledge ( https://www.gotquestions.org/angel-Gabriel.html ). It seems as if it indicates the miracle of information preserved through time. The strength of time. There is no other document or recitation like the Qur'an. It fits in a very important niche, which explains the Abrahamic worldview from the perspective of the believers outside of Judea, the origin of the first scribes exiled in Babylon. Without Jewish scribes, we would not have the Torah or any later revelations.

We search for a personal connection to Allah through prayer, because Allah is the source of everything. We prioritize and value the documents, which preserve the oldest information. The Qur'an is unique, because although it was recited and written after the time of Jesus, it contains information about ancient Mesopotamia and ancient Egypt that the Gospels do not. This is a sign.

Here is an article about a controversial Hadith, which when studied scholarly gives a more plausible and meaningful answer. Many people say that the Prophet Muhammed had a nine year old wife, and use it to slander his name and the religion of Islam. https://www.islamicity.org/104636/was-aisha-ra-9-years-old-when-she-married-the-prophet/

The article says:

• The sayings (Ahadith) that mention Aisha, are a secondary type from the companions, called a "hadith mursal".
• Other books reveal the local traditions of women and how they interpreted their age after puberty
• Sister of Aisha is mentioned, and their ages can be inferred by comparison
• The age of Aisha was probably 17 or 18

I agree with the people in this video and article from Islamicity, because I believe it is important to honor and defend the Prophet Muhammed, who was the messenger that delivered the Qur'an.

As someone who comes from a Christian background and who admires Jesus as an important prophet and a distinguished Jewish leader, I believe it is important to keep balance and honor Prophet Muhammed, who is revered by so many people.

Without the Prophet Muhammed, there would be no Qur'an. I hope scholars can learn to guide their studies of the scriptures around their faith. I hope scholars can search to prove things true, or give context, rather than using their knowledge to invalidate and critique each other.

To provide more context to the aforementioned Hadith about Aisha. One of my great-grandparents was 18 at the time of marriage.

Another perspective is that Aisha was indeed 9 years old, and it was the tradition of those old times. Yet, I want to search for the truth, because I do not find that acceptable in comparison to all the other good deeds of the Prophet Muhammed.

Others have also criticized the Talmud, for verses which talk about 3 year olds in marriage. Scholars of Jewish literature and believers should seek to find the answer for these similar topics. In one instance, I had heard a Mexican-American person say "of third age" or "de tercer edad" in reference to the elderly. In time, perhaps we will know more.

Simple outline of documents and records (For inspiration)

• Torah, Nevim, Khetuvim

Written in Hebrew, and Aramaic. A record from the beginning of time to thousands of years before 0 BCE.

• Gospels, Paul's Letters, other letters

Written in Koine Greek. A record about the life of Jesus and his followers.

• The Qur'an

Written in Arabic, and still recited. A record from the beginning of time til the time of the Prophet Muhammed.

*Beginning of time from the perspective of the people tracking time through narrations.

Surah al-Ma'arij 70:3-7

مِّنَ ٱللَّهِ ذِى ٱلْمَعَارِجِ
تَعْرُجُ ٱلْمَلَـٰٓئِكَةُ وَٱلرُّوحُ إِلَيْهِ فِى يَوْمٍ كَانَ مِقْدَارُهُۥ خَمْسِينَ أَلْفَ سَنَةٍ
فَٱصْبِرْ صَبْرًا جَمِيلًا
إِنَّهُمْ يَرَوْنَهُۥ بَعِيدًا
وَنَرَىٰهُ قَرِيبًا

Sahih Intl.

3.[It is] from Allah , owner of the ways of ascent.
4. The angels and the Spirit will ascend to Him during a Day the extent of which is fifty thousand years.
5.  So be patient with gracious patience.
6. Indeed, they see it [as] distant,
7. But We see it [as] near.

Sincerely,
Firehear47