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Offline Reader Questions

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Clarification on meaning of Ayats and Surahs
« on: April 11, 2012, 09:40:58 AM »
Dear Mr. Joseph,

Salam Alaykum,

I am gathering impression by reading Quran that Ayats are more intended to natural events ( God's signs , which required to be explored by human ) whereas Surah are referring more intended to the Verses of Quran.  Can you assist in my understanding or refer me to any of your article.

Before reading meanings of Quran, my understanding was Ayats are sentences of Quran and Surah are Chapters .  But several events/laws/nature's signs/occurrences which are made subservient to human or be explored through God's gifted senses like eyes, years and reason, I have to check my understanding. 

Best Regards

Offline Joseph Islam

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Re: Clarification on meaning of Ayats and Surahs
« Reply #1 on: April 11, 2012, 09:54:46 AM »
Salamun Alaikum.

It purely depends on the context. Ayats can clearly be a reference to verses as well. Please see the following verse as a clear example.

045:006
"These are the verses (ayat) of God that We recite to you with truth. Then in what 'Hadith' (statement / narrative) after God and His 'Ayat' (verses) will they believe?"

Now coupled with the mention of 'Hadith' in the above verse to imply any narrative other than the Quranic narratives, the 'ayat' in this context clearly allude to the verses of the Quran and not signs. Ayat in this context present 'statements'. Therefore, in this instance, interpreting 'ayat' as a 'sign' would be nonsensical. Therefore, context in important.

Similarly, Surahs clearly allude to complete chapters in my humble opinion and not verses.

For example if you read 10:38, an invitation is advanced to bring forth a surah as a rebuke to the charge of 'forgery'.

010:038
"Or do they say: He has forged it? Say: Then bring a chapter (suratin) like this and invite whom you can besides God, if you are truthful"

Then an explanation is given in the following verse as why this would never be possible.

010:039
"Nay, but they denied that, the knowledge of it they could not encompass (Arabic: bima lam yuhitu bil'ilmihi) and where its interpretation (Arabic: wa'lama yatihim tawiluh') has not yet come to them. Even so did those before them deny. Then see what was the consequence for the wrong-doers!"

Now a whole Surah has a start, middle and an end with a central core message or theme. Therefore, the interpretation that 'Surah' refers to 'chapters' is better supported in light of the statement "bima lam yuhitu bil'ilmihi" [knowledge that they could not encompass] and "wa'lama yatihim tawiluh" [and where its interpretation has not yet come to them].

These characteristics (ilm and tawil - knowledge and interpretation) are more indicative of a complete Surah / Chapter where knowledge and interpretation is elucidated rather than an isolated verse.

I hope that helps, God willing
Joseph.
'During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act' 
George Orwell

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Re: Clarification on meaning of Ayats and Surahs
« Reply #2 on: April 17, 2012, 08:09:21 AM »
S/alaykum,

Require further assistance to clarify:

45:6 is connected with signs/occurrences ( in  45:5/45:4).  They are true (haq)  natural phenomena (ayat ) for which no explanation (hadith) than nature (God and his signs) itself which reveals through its process. 
 
I also note that there are clear hints of verses = (sentences) as in 3:7 from the Book, but in several places my overwhelming impression ayats to be Signs of nature.
 
In 24:1 Surah (A Sentence) revealed as law /ordinance (faradna) , in which natural phenomena (ayats) has been made clear (bayyinat). For example there may be  reference of  day/night, rain from sky, change of winds etc., can be in one sentence, which has been made clear by God and such sentences are scattered throughout in various chapters (16:10 - 20) hence ayats as God's natural phenomena for the use of humanity.
 
I also note in 9:86  A surah enjoining  them to "believe in God and to strive and fight along with His Apostle (means Surah can be one sentence instructions?)
 
I feel 10:38 may be referring to 10:37 informing that Quran cannot be produced other than God. where non-believers refused to believe hence a sort of challenge to produce at least one surah (sentence) to non-believers.
 
I made my understanding clear and hope you to correct me with more examples, if possible.
 
Best Regards

Offline Joseph Islam

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Re: Clarification on meaning of Ayats and Surahs
« Reply #3 on: April 17, 2012, 08:16:21 AM »
Salamun Alaikum,

In my humble opinion, the best way to understand the term 'ayah' in 45:6 is in light of both the grammatical construction of the verse and the surrounding context. You are correct to interpret 'ayah' in 45:3-5 as 'signs / portents'

However, in 45:6, how are the signs being conveyed to the listener? Of course, they are being related in the form of communications and a book which is confirmed in 45:2. "The revelation of the Book is from Allah, the Mighty, the Wise".

So of course the reference in 45:6 is to the 'signs' related in 45:3, 45:4 and 45:5 but in 45:6 these are being summarised and referred to in the form of a recitation / rehearsal and read to the listener as part of a wider Quran. This is clear from the Arabic "natlluha alayka' (We recite them to you) where the verb 'yatlu' has been clearly expressed as an action of recitation / rehearsal.

Therefore, the nominative noun 'ayat' is linked to the pronoun 'ha' of 'tatluha' which in turn is linked to the imperfect verb 'natlu' (recite / rehearsed). So in this context, the ayah, are being 'recited' in the form of communications / verses which links back to 45:2.

This is further supported by the Arabic "fabi'ayyi hadithin ba'dallahi waayatihi" (Then in what statement (Hadith) after God and His Verses). Therefore, 'ayathihi' is linked with 'hadithin' (statement) as a form of communication and best interpreted as 'verses' in my humble opinion.

It would be difficult to read it as "Then in what communication (Hadith) will they believe after God and His 'signs' (ayatihi)?". Here the word 'Hadith' falls out of kilter with the interpretation of ayatihi as 'signs' and makes little sense.

Finally, as you will appreciate 3:7 should not be taken lightly. Here 'ayatun' clearly refers to the verses of the Quran as best interpretation. This is the same for 2:106, 16:101 or 11:1

011:001
"Alif Lam Ra (This is) a Book, whose verses (ayatuhu) are made decisive, then are they made plain, from the Wise, All-aware"

016:101 (Part)
"When We substitute one verse (ayatan) for another..."

This is why the word 'ayat' is nuanced and has always been well appreciated as such by classical Arabic lexicographers and Arabic speakers.

I hope that helps, God willing.
Joseph.
'During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act' 
George Orwell