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Offline Saba

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Lot People and Homosexuality
« on: May 25, 2012, 09:23:24 PM »
Aslamaolaikum all ,

I was reading the following link on another forum.

http://www.salaatforum.com/index.php?id=1552

I know homosexual acts are forbidden by the Quran. However, the question put is interesting.

"Taken individually, these behaviors are present in our societies today. I do not think the people of Lot were homosexuals, rather they were criminals and enjoyed subjugating men as their sex slaves"

Is there any ground for this suggestion? Thanks, Saba

Offline chadiga

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Re: Lot People and Homosexuality
« Reply #1 on: May 26, 2012, 08:49:24 PM »
salam saba
i found an article in german, he point out this question. the translation is with google. i hope understandable. :D
Homosexuality in the Koran
Monday, 04 February 2008 at 21:29 clock Andreas Heisig article - The Fiqh   
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1.Introduction

Homosexuality is a sin in Islam. This is primarily occupied with the hadith (prophetic traditions), which are regarded as second source of Islamic law. However, these are only about 200 years after the death of the prophet were written down. The first source, the Koran, but is expressed at any point directly about homosexuality or homosexual behavior. The latter is n this work are highlighted specifically.

Second The story of Lot

Many believe that a ban on homosexuality from the story of Lot resultiere. This is one possible interpretation, but it is not entirely clear.

2.1 Sura 7 verses 80-84

"And (we) have the Lot (sent as our messengers). (Then) he said to his people: "Will ye commit an abomination, as no one has yet committed by the people around the world before you, For ye (your) sense desire truly off with men instead of women?. No, its a people who are not maßhält. " His people knew nothing else to say (it), but that they (together) said: "them out of your city are the (yes) People who consider themselves pure." And we delivered him and his family (of the punishment that was to befall his people), with the exception of his wife. She was among those who lagged behind (?). And we had a (destructive) rain down on them. Look, like the end of the evildoers! " 1

Already a feature in this verse is clear. There are obviously not all men, but only married men criticized. . "For ye (your) sense desire truly off with men rather than women," This is clearly in verse 81, which states that one can now argue that the Koran actually not spoken directly from wives النساء - l-Nisai means Indeed, the only "women" and is therefore not without further weighting.

So how does one now to say that they are wives? We teach to his attention again to verse 81: "For ye (your) mind truly desire from men with, rather than with women." Here it is clear that it goes to intimacies that are exchanged. If you were to assume that wives were not meant, but women in general, this would imply that the text of the Koran would not condemn the intimate intercourse with women per se. This is contrary to Sura 24 verse 30:

"Tell the believing men that they should keep (instead of someone staring at them, rather) lower their eyes, and her chastity. So they keep most morally (and clean). Allah is well informed about what they do."

In this verse is clear to see that religious men should not only share any intimacies with other women, but even should lower their gaze!

But there are other important things are evident from the verse, or rather do not go out of it.

Thus, no statement is made about whether the men are really gay, bisexual, or whether they are about. The suspicion exists, however, that it is about bisexuality is, since the men were married.

Also, there is God in the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah is apparently not exclusively so that men went to other men, rather than their own wives, because it is punished the whole nation and specifically to women, namely, the wife of Lot.

But even if we stick to the opinion that it is not for wives, it is noted that the translation in the sense of exclusivity also is not clear. One could also translate the relevant passage as follows:

"For ye (your) pleasure from true with men, besides women."



The relevant term at this point is duni (دون) and can be either an exclusivity but also show an additionality, as Sura 5 verse occupies 116:

"And (then), when God says," Jesus son of Mary! Have you (as) said to the people: "Take out [duni] God me and my mother as gods"? "He says:" Blessed are you! (As you might you associate other beings as gods!) I can not say anything, which I have no right. If I would have said (but actually), you knew it (and in any case need not ask me to test). You know something about what I (thought to) cherish in me. But I know about what you hold in you, do not know. You (alone) to the know about the hidden things about it are. "



Sura 8 Verse 60 even more compelling:

"And is preparing for it as much as you on military force and steeds of war (raise) can, other in order to intimidate that God and your enemies, and other off [duni] them, of whom ye have no knowledge (probably) but God, and if you something donation for God's sake, it is you (in the settlement in the Hereafter) fully paid back. And you will (it) not be wronged. "



Thus, we hold that the verse can be understood in the sense that the men practice in addition to the women also with men (bisexual).

We can therefore hold:

It is an offense that no one had previously committed.

When the offense is committed adultery with his own sex or bisexual activity.

This offense is not the only one.

The verse does not say that it would be about homosexual acts.

2.2 Sura 26 verses 165-173

"" Will ye give to people as male sex, and (it) neglect (w. (leave unnoticed) can be), what your Lord has created you in your wives (as a spouse)? No, you are a criminal people. . (W. people who make themselves guilty of a transgression "They said:". Lot If you (not with your talk) to stop, they will sell you determined (from here) "He said:" I hate what you do . Lord Deliver! me and my family from what they do! "We saved him and his entire family (of the punishment that was to befall his people), with the exception of an old woman (the) (was) under which who lagged behind (?). Then we exterminated the other, leaving a (destructive) rain down on them. bad it rained on those who were warned (and beat the alarm in the wind had). That is a sign (the people would serve as a warning). But most of them are (just) do not believe. "

This verse speaks of it in concrete terms, that the men neglect their wives in order to occupy himself with other men. This becomes evident that here is no longer used the general term for women, but the wording is designed explicitly to wives back from ازوجكم - azwājikum - "your wives").

2.3 Sura 27 verse 55

"Will you really make (your) lust with men instead of women? No, you're a foolish nation. ""

In this verse we are dealing with the same construct as in sura 7 verse 81st Analogously, this meant including wives and bisexual acts.

Sura 02.04 29 Verses 28-29

"And Lot (as we have sent our messengers). (Then) he said to his people: "You are committing something so (see above) abomination, as it has still not committed by people the world over Will you give because with men (rather than women) drive, and highway robbery. ? your council to commit what is reprehensible, "His people knew nothing but respond to (the fact) that they said:" Bring us the punishment of God (the threatenest us) since if (else) you are telling the truth "!"

The Koran calls us in these verses three different reasons for the punishment that the people have received lots:

Intimate with men (already intimate interpretation! A sexual component can be derived without the other verses that do not look!)

Street robbery

Do in the meetings Deprecated.

As the intimate intercourse with men is to be understood, has been already explained. Now, however, the offense will be extended. So we can say under any circumstances, that homosexual adultery alone has provoked the wrath of Allah!

Sura 11 verse 77-78 2.5

And when our messengers came to Lut, he was moved about them in trouble and did not know what to do with them. He said: "This is a difficult day." And his people came running to him - and before they committed (ongoing) wickedness. He said: ". Your people because you have my daughters They are purer for you (as my guests) Fear God, and brings me no shame about my guests in Is there no honest man among you.?"

This verse is another crime of Lot's people will be addressed. Apparently they are trying to penetrate to Lot's guests. Therefore can not be clearly determined. In the overall context, however, a sexual component to be accepted. This would imply that it is an attempt to homosexual rape, as not to be assumed is that the guests want to get married. Accordingly, referring to his daughters Lot. For this action, there are different interpretations:

Either accept Lot rape of his daughters or his approval of illegitimate sexual intercourse with them, he or she offers to marry. The latter option appears as a most useful, because even God forbids adultery and rape. Only in the context of a marriage or marriage-like contract sexual acts are permissible.

Some people think that the fact that Lot offers his daughters to the marriage would prove that the men were unmarried. This does not go far enough, because the possibility of plural marriage is ignored at this point. Nevertheless, one can certainly assume that there were unmarried men, who came to Lot in this verse. However, this does not contradict the assumption that in other verses of married husbands talk, because it may well be that mentioned in one verse of the adultery of married men with other men, trying in this verse rape of men raised in general is.

6.2 Conclusion

As you can see it going in the sins of the people of Lot for adultery, robbery, attempted rape and other atrocities, but not purely homosexual act.

Furthermore: even if you wanted to interpret this verse in terms of pure homosexuality, one would have to realize that it is possible to derive any offense, the punishment of God for all the acts together and not for a single. It is doubtful, even, that the above acts were in fact drawn a divine punishment, as in Sura 54 verse 37 we read:

"They had made ​​the suggestion to him that he should deliver to them his guests. But we took away his sight. You should get to feel my punishment and my warning. "

Apparently was the catalyst for the punishment of the first attempt to get down to the guests lots against their will, in other words, an attempted rape.

Third Sura 23 verse 5-6

"And abstain from sexual intercourse, then except from their wives, or what they have (to slaves), (because) they are not to blame. - "

Many use this verse to derive an indirect prohibition of homosexual acts from the Koran. This would be correct if you only read superficially. On closer inspection, however, one comes to the term "ما ملكت ايمنهم - mā Malakat aymānuhum" which Paret here with "what they have (...)" (translated slaves are already an interpretation that is in the Koran can not be found above) . This term is not gender-bound, meaning that although there will be no marriage principles, but the sex is not at this location with your sex explicitly excluded. This fact even led to the Tafsir al-Kabir, Abu Abdullah Muhammad ibn Umar ibn al-Husayn al-Bakri al-al-Taymi Tabaristani Fakhr al-Din al-Razi is to read that verse above allow sexual intercourse with slaves.

4th The punishment for atrocities

People who see in Sura 23 verse 6, however, an indirect prohibition of homosexual acts, are based on a secular punishment Sura 4 verses 15-16:

"And if any of your women commit an abomination, then, requires that four of you (men) testify against them! If they (actually) testify, then they hold fast in the house until death do claim them, or God provides a way (to return to normal life)! And if two of you (men) to commit it, then it punishes! If they turn back (then) and get better, then turn away from them (and is not to them)! God is gracious and merciful. "

The above verses speak of generally immoral behavior, however, refer not only to homosexual behavior itself. The only distinction in mind: when women do this alone, they should receive lifelong house arrest until they repent or otherwise escape a result. Does this "abomination" between man and woman, husband and wife or man and man instead, it is said in general that we should denounce it (literally, "harm"). This can be done in various ways, but now we want to refer only to homosexual behavior (under the above premise).

Apparently, the abomination is only punishable if it is implemented in the public and deliberately provocative, because otherwise it would be hardly possible to find four witnesses. Furthermore, one must bear in mind that the Koran demands in many places that you can judge fairly and an emergency exceptions allowed. I cite this because of the current state of knowledge about homosexuality is that it is innate. The store must be accountable and it is therefore necessary to consider whether the person is homosexual because of his equipment, because it will not do for someone who acts on the basis of an inner compulsion to punish to the full. It really just that the person may not fulfill their inclination to the public, it should be noted that heterosexual behavior is undesirable in the public.

5th Conclusion

As we have seen, there is no direct prohibition in the Koran of homosexuality or homosexual acts. Although it is possible through certain ways of interpretation, this kind as a sin in the Koran read into, but even then one must be aware that it can not draw any worldly punishment. Rather, the circumstances are investigated in detail in order to arrive at an objective assessment. It is prohibited only 100% safe and is illegal to practice immoral behavior in public.

6th Digression

The Quran informs us that there is no harm if you are unsure of a case is a look into the Bible to throw. There too we find the story of Lot:

The Judgment of Sodom and Lot's rescue (NRSV):

1 The two angels came to Sodom in the evening. Lot sat in the gate of Sodom. When he saw them, he got up, walked toward her, threw himself face down on the earth

2 and said: Gentlemen, but returns in a house of your servant, will remain overnight and washed the feet of you! In the morning you can continue it your way. No, they said, we want to spend the night outdoors.

3 He spake thus to them until they mitgingen and stayed with him. He made them a feast, unleavened bread was baked and ate them.

4 They had not gone to bed, because the inhabitants of the city surrounded the house, the men of Sodom, both young and old, all the people from far and wide.

5 They called to Lot and said to him: Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out, we want to associate with them.

6 Lot went out to them before the door, closed it behind him

7 and said: But my brothers guilty, but not such a crime!

8 Behold, I have two daughters who have not known man. I bring them out to you. Then do with them what you like. Only those men do not do anything because you know they have come under the shelter of my roof.

9 But they shouted: Do you away, and said, came here as an immigrant and therefore wants to play as a judge! Now we'll treat you worse than them. They put the man, namely Lot, too much and were at it, break the door.

10 And the men stretched out his hand moved, Lot into the house and locked the door.

11 Then they struck the men outside the house, young and old, with blindness so that they tried in vain to find the entrance.

12 The men then said unto Lot, Hast thou here a son, sons, daughters, or anyone else in town? Take them out of this place!

13 Because we want to destroy this place, because the action is difficult, which is penetrated by the people to the Lord. The Lord has sent us to destroy the city.

14 So Lot went out, talked to his sons, who wanted to marry his daughters, and said, power to you and leave this place, because the Lord wants to destroy the city. But thought his sons, he'm kidding.

15 rose as the dawn, the angels urged Lot to hurry: Come, take your wife and your two daughters who are here, lest you be swept away because of the guilt of the city.

16 Then he hesitated, the men framed him, his wife and two daughters by the hand, because the Lord had pity with him, led him out and left him just before going on outside the city.

17 While he brought them out into the open, he said: Get yourself to safety, it's about your life. Do not look around and stay are not available in the area! Flee to the mountains or you will also be swept away.

18 And Lot said unto them, Nay, my lord,

19 Your servant has found yet your benevolence. You have shown me great favor and allowed me to live. But I can not flee to the mountains, or I can not let go of the bad luck and die I must.

20 Then, near the city, there could flee to. She's small, there I will save myself. Is not it small? So I could stay alive.

21 He answered him: Well, even I will give you and do not destroy the city, of which you speak.

22 Quick flee thither, because I can not do anything until you get there. So he named the town of Zoar (Small).

23 When the sun had risen over the country and arrived in Zoar, Lot,

24 of the Lord upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire, let the Lord from heaven.

25 He destroyed those cities from the ground up and the whole area, all residents of the cities and everything that grew in the fields.

26 When Lot's wife looked back, she became a pillar of salt.

27 On the early morning Abraham went to the place where he had confronted the Lord.

28 And he looked toward Sodom and Gomorrah and the whole area within, and saw smoke rose from the earth like the smoke of a furnace.

29 When God destroyed the cities of the area, he remembered Abraham and sent Lot out of the midst of destruction continued escort, while the cities where Lot had lived, from the ground destroyed.

In the Bible we find no reference to homosexuality in itself, but even here it seems a lot more to go rape. Refer to

Here you can see how Sunnis react sometimes when you are confronted with the above text: http://antikezukunft.de/2011/07/02/der-islam-und-die-homosexualitat/

Footnotes:

1 If not stated otherwise, the Quran quotes taken from: Paret, Rudy: The Koran. Stuttgart,

Berlin, Cologne, 2001, 8 revised edition.



Sources:

http://home.arcor.de/yadgar/mohr/islam_homo.html

http://home.arcor.de/yadgar/mohr/islam_homo2.html

http://www.uib.no/jais/v004/schmitt1.pdf

Quran translation by A. Zaidan "At-Tafseer"