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Offline Orange

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Translation without interpretation
« on: September 29, 2012, 12:11:24 PM »
Dear brother Joseph, Peace be on you.

Are you working on translating Quran without interpretation?

It creates a suspense for true translations when we read Anfal as Spoils of War instead of The Excess or gain as noted.

With respect to your wisdom please confirm whether below chapters have been translated appropriately:

1-Al-Fatihah-The Opening   
2-Al-Baqarah-The Cow   
3-Aal-e-´Imran-The Family Of Imran 
4-An-Nisaa-The Women   
5-Al-Maaedah-The Heavenly System Of Sustenance
6-Al-An´aam-The Cattle   
7-Al-A´raaf-The Heights Of Discernment 
8-Al-Anfal-The Excess
9-At-Taubah-The Repentance   
10-Yunus-Jonah     
11-Hud-Hud     
12-Yusuf-Joseph     
13-Ar-Ra´d-The Thunder   
14-Ibraheem-Abraham     
15-Al-Hijr-The Valley Of Rocks 
16-An-Nahl-The Bee   
17-Al-Asra-The Night Journey   
18-Al-Kahf-The Cave   
19-Maryam-Mary     
20-Ta-Ha-The Ideal Prophet   
21-Al-Anbiya-The Prophets   
22-Al-Hajj-The Annual Convention (Pilgrimage) 
23-Al-Mu´minoon-The Believers   
24-An-Noor-The Light   
25-Al-Furqan-The Criterion   
26-Ash-Shu´ara-The Poets   
27-An-Naml-The Valley Of An-Naml 
28-Al-Qasas-The Narration   
29-Al-´Ankaboot-The Spider   
30-Ar-Room-The Romans   
31-Luqman-Locomon     
32-As-Sajdah-Adoration     
33-Al-Ahzab-The Confederates   
34-Saba-Sheba     
35-Al-Faatir-The Originator   
36-Ya-Seen-O Human Being!   
37-As-Saffaat-Soldiers In Ranks   
38-Saad-Full Of Truth   
39-Az-Zumar-The Communities   
40-Al-Mu´min-The Believer   
41-Fussilat-A Book Clearly Spelled Out
42-Ash-Shura-Mutual Consultation   
43-Az-Zukhruf-Ornaments Of Gold   
44-Ad-Dukhaan-The Smoke   
45-Al-Jaathia-Kneeling Down   
46-Al-Ahqaaf-The Sand-Dunes   
47-Muhammad-Muhammad     
48-Al-Fath-Victory     
49-Al-Hujurat-The Private Apartments   
50-Qaaf-Qaaf     
51-Az-Zaariyat-Those Who Spread The Divine Word
52-At-Toor-Mount Sinai   
53-An-Najm-The Star   
54-Al-Qamar-The Full Moon   
55-Ar-Rahman-The Beneficent   
56-Al-Waaqi´ah-The Inevitable Episode   
57-Al-Hadeed-Iron     
58-Al-Mujadilah-The Pleading   
59-AL-Hashr-The Gathering   
60-Al-Mumtahinah-The Lady Under Oath 
61-As-Saff-The Rank   
62-Al-Jumu´ah-The Congregation   
63-Al-Munaafiqoon-The Hypocrites   
64-At-Taghaabun-The Ultimate Loss And Gain
65-At-Talaq-Divorce     
66-At-Tahreem-Prohibition     
67-Al-Mulk-The Supreme Kingdom   
68-Al-Qalam-The Pen   
69-Al-Haaqqah-The Inevitable Reality   
70-Al-Ma´aarij-The Stairways Of Ascent 
71-Nooh-Noah     
72-Al-Jinn-The Unseen Beings   
73-Al-Muzammil-The Great Caravan Leader 
74-Al-Muddaththir-Founder Of The Benevolent Order
75-Al-Qiyamah-The Resurrection   
76-Ad-Dahr-The Time   
77-Al-Mursalaat-The Messages Sent Forth 
78-An-Naba-The News   
79-An-Nazi´aat-Those Who Dive   
80-´Abasa-Someone Frowned   
81-At-Takweer-The Folding Up   
82-Al-Infitaar-The Shattering   
83-At-Tatfeef-Dealing In Fraud   
84-Al-Inshiqaaq-The Sundering   
85-Al-Burooj-The Great Constellations   
86-At-Taariq-The Brightest Star   
87-Al-A´la-The Most High   
88-Al-Ghaashiyah-The Great Covering   
89-Al-Fajr-The Daybreak   
90-Al-Balad-The Town   
91-Ash-Shams-The Sun   
92-Al-Lail-The Night   
93-Ad-Duha-The Daylight   
94-Ash-Sharh-The Expansion   
95-At-Teen-The Fig   
96-Al-´Alaq-The Zygote   
97-Al-Qadr-The Majesty   
98-Al-Bayyinah-The Clear Evidence   
99-Az-Zilzal-The Quake   
100-Al-´Aadiyat-The Gallopers   
101-Al-Qaari´ah-The Catastrophe   
102-At-Takaathur-The Relentless Greed   
103-Al-´Asr-Time That Flies   
104-Al-Humazah-The Slanderer   
105-Al-Feel-The Elephant   
106-Quraish-The Tribe Of Quraish 
107-Al-Maa´oon-The Spring Of Sustenance 
108-Al-Kauthar-The Abundant Good   
109-Al-Kaafiroon-Those Who Deny The Truth
110-An-Nasr-The Help   
111-Al-Lahab-The Flame   
112-Al-Ikhlas-The Pure Monotheism   
113-Al-Falaq-The Rising Dawn   
114-An-Naas-Mankind     

Regards

Offline Joseph Islam

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Re: Translation without interpretation
« Reply #1 on: September 29, 2012, 01:39:43 PM »
Peace Orange,

The question with respect to offering a translation of the Quran has been asked of me many times before. I humbly have no intention at present to embark on such a noble mission given my other pursuits in this area which remain a priority in my life. Furthermore, many have already provided a stirling effort and I would find any personal humble effort in this arena superfluous.

The Quran is best understood in Arabic. Those that cannot understand Arabic are best advised to make use of as many translations available today, side by side, and to cross reference them with other passages of the Quran.

Furthermore, it is worth appreciating that as many Quranic words are nuanced, some interpretation is inevitable even during a strict literal translation. However, the best translation is one which stays closest to the Arabic language and its usage in the Quran and doesn't deceptively present itself as a translation whilst pandering to the theological precepts and interpolations of the biased commentator.

Such 'interpolations' do exist and are tacitly yet deceptively passed of as 'translations'. One would be better advised to steer clear of such endeavours if one is not familiar with the Arabic of the Quran.

With regards Surah names, I am not convinced that the indicative / arbitrary names of surahs were ever important during the Prophetic ministry. They certainly seem to have limited value in the earliest codices of the Quran and are not present during any Quranic recitation. They should be used as a marker at best. I note that in the main, the translation offered for the Surah names you have shared are 'generally' a fair reflection of the Arabic. Some are more interpretive than literal, but they have no bearing on the Quranic text, which is my area of primary concern. Hence my limited response.

I hope that helps, God willing.

Regards,
Joseph.
'During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act' 
George Orwell

Offline Orange

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Re: Translation without interpretation
« Reply #2 on: October 01, 2012, 05:36:43 PM »
Peace be on you.

Dear brother, just a question

With respect to your research, Does these Surah names were not revealed along with Quran?

(as the Quran was put together by God’s decree during the lifetime of the Prophet (pbuh) than)

If (and if only) the names were part of Quran than they must have a significant importance.

Usually when I discuss with friends and family, I always got to hear you can never understand Quran alone as it is not explained, like there are no details and I share with them references and sometimes I usually say "There is an entire chapter by God respectively "Fussilat" - Explained in detail" so the name of Surah itself have an effect on them. 

Offline Joseph Islam

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Re: Translation without interpretation
« Reply #3 on: October 02, 2012, 04:07:45 AM »
Dear Orange,

Peace to you.

It is often unappreciated by many Muslims that headings and even verse numberings as we understand them today were absent in the earliest codices of the Quran. Therefore, it can be argued that they were never part of the Quranic revelation, despite any claims of later Islamic secondary sources. Early Quranic codices didn't even possess diacritical marks or vocalisations / vowel signs or even formally indicate when verses had ended. The primary mode of revelation and transmission was oral supported by a written transmission by the hands of noble scribes (80:13-16)  [1]

"Headings and numbering of verses were absent in the original codices and still form no integral part of the holy script" [2]

"Old Qur`anic manuscripts have no diacritical marks or vowel signs. They also lack headings (names of Surahs) and punctuation marks. They do not separate the Surahs or formally indicate the end of a verse. Both the Kufi and Hijazi script underwent development with time. Old manuscripts naturally use primitive forms of these scripts." [3]

Surah headings seem to me to be compiled by later editors as markers who relied on Islamic traditions and ‘Asbab ul Nazul’ (occasions of revelation). The latter was at best a fluid enterprise covering only a part of the Quran with limited value [4].

This cannot be accepted by any critical historian as ipso facto indicative of its veracity. There are also different names attributed to the same Surahs. For example, Chapter 17 is referred to as Surah al-Isra and is also known as Bani Israel.

Therefore, it is important to appreciate that the earliest codices are inconclusive as evidence as they do not bear the names / headings of the Surahs. Hence, this is why I humbly asserted the limitation of the emphasis placed on such Surah names either on the basis of early codices or based on Quranic recitation today. No Quranic recitation today formally begins with the name of the Surah.

Please see an example of a folio from an old Sana manuscript below which initiates with Chapter 6 (Surah Anaam).  You will note that no Surah name is present.

http://www.unesco.org/webworld/mdm/visite/sanaa/en/d5z2.html

I hope that helps, God willing.
Joseph.


REFERENCES:

[1] Joseph Islam - THE COMPILATION OF THE QURAN, http://quransmessage.com/articles/the%20compilation%20of%20the%20quran%20FM3.htm
[2] CAESAR, F. E, Islam, Seventh Edition, Barron's Educational Series, Inc. Chapter 5, and Foundations of Islam: The Quran, Arrangement Page 82
[3] SHAFAAT, A. Islamic Perspectives, Chapter 3, Early Transcription of the Qur'an, Revised March 2005
[4] Joseph Islam - FLUID BEGINNINGS OF ASBAB UL-NAZUL, http://quransmessage.com/articles/asbab-ul-nazul%20FM3.htm

'During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act' 
George Orwell

Offline Orange

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Re: Translation without interpretation
« Reply #4 on: October 03, 2012, 06:42:53 PM »
Salamun Alaikum

Thanks for a detail response.

Regards

Offline Sardar Miyan

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Re: Translation without interpretation
« Reply #5 on: October 14, 2012, 12:56:23 AM »
Bro JAI Salam , I appreciate your advice about referring various translations is fine but translations by the modern translators is very peculiar. They refer the Dictionary and create new meaning other than the real concept. You know better about these people.Secondly you have suggested to check the cross reference of Ayaat which is difficult for a new comer to find out. Some time back I requested several people on various Forums to guide me or give reference of any book which highlight such references (Tasreef ) but I could not get help. I am trying to learn Quranic Arabic to understand myself by referring various books though some organizations would teach Arabic and Transliteration on line. Your kind suggestion in this regard will be appreciated. Thanks
May entire creation be filled with Peace & Joy & Love & Light

Offline Orange

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Re: Translation without interpretation
« Reply #6 on: October 14, 2012, 07:18:56 AM »
Dear Sardar,

You might find the following website useful:

http://corpus.quran.com/wordbyword.jsp

Example if you click "bis'mi"  under (1:1:1), you will get the following details:

http://corpus.quran.com/qurandictionary.jsp?q=smw#(1:1:1)

May it helps, God willing.

Offline Joseph Islam

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Re: Translation without interpretation
« Reply #7 on: October 14, 2012, 01:39:25 PM »
Bro JAI Salam , I appreciate your advice about referring various translations is fine but translations by the modern translators is very peculiar. They refer the Dictionary and create new meaning other than the real concept. You know better about these people.Secondly you have suggested to check the cross reference of Ayaat which is difficult for a new comer to find out. Some time back I requested several people on various Forums to guide me or give reference of any book which highlight such references (Tasreef ) but I could not get help. I am trying to learn Quranic Arabic to understand myself by referring various books though some organizations would teach Arabic and Transliteration on line. Your kind suggestion in this regard will be appreciated. Thanks


Dear Brother Sardar,

Peace to you.

Please see Orange's recommendation above which seems to be a popular site with a lot of Quran students.

With regards Tasreef al-ayaat, a comprehensive response was given to you addressing your question.

http://quransmessage.com/forum/index.php?topic=393.msg1178#msg1178

Regards,
Joseph.
'During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act' 
George Orwell

Offline Sardar Miyan

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Re: Translation without interpretation
« Reply #8 on: October 15, 2012, 07:40:23 PM »
Thanks Bros  Orange and JAI for helping reply
May entire creation be filled with Peace & Joy & Love & Light

Offline Wakas

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Re: Translation without interpretation
« Reply #9 on: October 16, 2012, 07:04:47 PM »
salaam,

Are you working on translating Quran without interpretation?

I dont think such a thing is possible. All translations will have some interpretation.

Offline Wakas

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Re: Translation without interpretation
« Reply #10 on: October 16, 2012, 07:05:50 PM »
salaam sardar,

Secondly you have suggested to check the cross reference of Ayaat which is difficult for a new comer to find out. Some time back I requested several people on various Forums to guide me or give reference of any book which highlight such references (Tasreef ) but I could not get help. I am trying to learn Quranic Arabic to understand myself by referring various books though some organizations would teach Arabic and Transliteration on line. Your kind suggestion in this regard will be appreciated. Thanks

The following site contains many excellent links: www.StudyQuran.org