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Offline Orange

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Belongings of Prophet Muhammad (Peace be on him)
« on: October 22, 2012, 03:37:32 AM »
Peace be on you Dear Joseph,

Many people assert belongings of prophet Muhammad (Peace be on him) like Shoe, Sandals, Cloak etc and praise and thanks God with those images.

Are you aware of any research done on these things that people think belong to Prophet?

I feel those people who share such things simply put behind the Message that Prophet was inspired with (Quran) and place it behind their bewildered array of wishes.

Offline HOPE

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Re: Belongings of Prophet Muhammad (Peace be on him)
« Reply #1 on: October 22, 2012, 07:12:54 AM »
Salaam Orange,


Quote
the Message that Prophet was inspired with (Quran


I believe there is a difference between Wahy and inspiration.  Prophets knew from Whom  the Message was coming whereas in "inspiration" the receiver does not know.
"Hope is like a bird that senses the dawn and carefully starts to sing while it is still dark"

Offline Sardar Miyan

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Re: Belongings of Prophet Muhammad (Peace be on him)
« Reply #2 on: October 22, 2012, 09:49:05 AM »
We have to respect the Prophet and act on the message he receives & delivers to us through wahi.We should also respect his belongings but the main purpose is  to follow the message.Tge message is important than his belongings.Wahi is to a Prophet from God but inspiration to any human which is also from God which comes into one's mind.
May entire creation be filled with Peace & Joy & Love & Light

Offline Orange

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Re: Belongings of Prophet Muhammad (Peace be on him)
« Reply #3 on: October 23, 2012, 03:06:14 AM »
The Quran was the only inspiration that Prophet Muhammad (Peace be on him) received for purposes of guidance and to warn mankind.

Offline Sardar Miyan

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Re: Belongings of Prophet Muhammad (Peace be on him)
« Reply #4 on: October 23, 2012, 09:20:16 AM »
Bro I feel that in my humble opinion there is difference in Wahi & Inspiration.Wahi is on Prophets & Inspiration any human can get.Bro Joseph may clarify if he thinks fit.Thanks
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Offline Joseph Islam

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Re: Belongings of Prophet Muhammad (Peace be on him)
« Reply #5 on: October 23, 2012, 09:56:49 AM »
Dear All,

Salamun Alaikum

The Arabic root used by the Quran which means to reveal, to indicate, to signify, suggest a thing (in the mind), a signal, to inspire or to point out is 'W-H-Y'. [1]

Verse 42:51 makes it clear how communications from God reach humans. [1]

  • Through inspiration / suggestions / indications etc
  • Behind a veil (Hijab) - See Prophet Moses's (pbuh) example in the article [1]
  • By sending a messenger

The imperfect verb 'yuhi' which has been used in verse 42:51 has been used in the Quran for the kind of revelations made to messengers of God for a particular mission or a revelation to the angels. For example, please see 3:44, 8:12, 11:49, 12:102, 12:109, 16:43, 21:7, 21: 25, 34:50 and 42:3. However, it has also been used for satanic inspirations as well. Please see 6:112 and 6:121.
 
Therefore, the verb 'yuhi' is not restricted to 'Divine' revelations alone and in its general sense, captures inspiration in a wider sense whether it is good or bad.

Furthermore, to restrict the ability to receive 'wahi' to certain chosen individuals is incorrect from the perspective of the Quran. All humans have the capacity to be inspired in one form or another.
 
The mother of Prophet Moses (pbuh) was not a prophetess but was inspired (28:7), as are the bees. They too are inspired by God in their capacities to perform a particular function (16:68).
 
However, ‘wahi’ in terms of ‘Prophethood’ has ceased for mankind (khatama nabiyana 33:40) with Prophet Muhammad.  In the capacity as a Prophet of God and whilst parting guidance as an instrument of God such as in the inspiration of the Quran, the utterances of the Prophet were protected and would have remained well distinguished. (53:3) [2]

The Prophet also received other forms of suggestions as do other human beings [3]. However, as they were not essential for inclusion in the final testament for mankind, they were not included in the recitation of the Quran. This would be similar to the kind of suggestions / inclinations that the mother of Moses would have received to place the baby in the river (28:7) or the kind of suggestion / inclination Prophet Moses would have received to travel by the night with a view to flee from Pharaoh's people (26:52).


I hope that helps, God willing.
Joseph.


REFERENCES:

[1] UNDERSTANDING VERSE 42:51 - WHO CAN RECEIVE 'WAHI'?
http://quransmessage.com/articles/wahi%20FM3.htm
[2] WERE ALL THE PROPHET'S UTTERANCES A 'WAHI' FROM GOD? (DIVINELY INSPIRED)
http://quransmessage.com/articles/prophetic%20utterances%20FM3.htm
[3] Surah Tahreem
http://quransmessage.com/forum/index.php?topic=237.0
'During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act' 
George Orwell

Offline Joseph Islam

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Re: Belongings of Prophet Muhammad (Peace be on him)
« Reply #6 on: October 23, 2012, 10:10:52 AM »
Peace be on you Dear Joseph,

Many people assert belongings of prophet Muhammad (Peace be on him) like Shoe, Sandals, Cloak etc and praise and thanks God with those images.

Are you aware of any research done on these things that people think belong to Prophet?

Dear Orange,

Peace to you.

I am not aware of any research on the belongings of the Prophet which cogently verify the veracity of the claims. In fact, I am not convinced whether this is even possible. There are many such assertions that are prevalent. The attachment to belongings to great ones is not unknown to the Quran. Please see verse 2:248.

I hope that helps, God willing.
Joseph.
'During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act' 
George Orwell

Offline HOPE

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Re: Belongings of Prophet Muhammad (Peace be on him)
« Reply #7 on: October 24, 2012, 01:25:26 AM »
Salaam brother Joseph,

Thanks for your very informative post.  Yes, the word 'wahy' has several meanings depending on context.  When it comes to Quran, it is not an inspiration but a revelation.


Quran uses the word kalam to describe Revelation
   Jews used to hear the Kalam Allah before they altered it  2:75
   Prophet was asked to give refuge to the polytheists if requested so they may have a chance of hearing kalamullah.  9:6
   God establishes the Truth with His words/kalimah  42:24
   Prophet Muhammad was entrusted with a heavy word/responsibility. 73:5

Revelation  is an extraordinary phenomenon.  The Speaker is God and speaks Arabic so that the man hears the words and understands.

Prophet’s community did not understand because the interaction was between God and Muhammad although it was a unilateral communication. 
From the Jahili point of view, the prophet was possessed by a jinn momentarily who uttered words through him.
Jahiliyah was familiar with a Kahin who was supposed to see the future and able to be possessed at any moment by a supernatural force.

Iin ancient Arabia poet was an ‘inspired’ man.  Goldziher shows in his ‘Muslim Studies” the poetry called al-hija which is based on a shamanistic conception of poetry.  Shair/poet is a derivation from the verb sha’ara meaning to have cognizance of.  Poet was a person who had a knowledge of the unseen world.  Poetry was the result of direct communication with the unseen spirits.  There was an intimate relationship between the poet and the jinn, poet calling him his friend (khalil).  Izutsu points out that this kind of demonic inspiration was always felt by the poet to be something ‘coming down’ from above. The word ‘nuzul’  was used for poetic inspration.  Quran uses their terminology, sha’ir majnun.

I can see where pagan Arabs are coming from.  In their eyes, Muhammad was possessed and inspired by a Jinn because  Muhammad was claiming to have knowledge of the al-ghayb, brought to him by a supernatural being coming down from heaven (nuzul).  Whether the being was God, angel, or jinn did not matter.

37:158  “They set up between Allah and the Jinn a kinship”

52:29   “By the grace of thy Lord, you are neither a soothsayer nor man possessed by a Jinn!

As 42:51 shows there are three types of verbal communication from God to man:  by wahi, from behind a veil or sending rasulan to communicate (yuhiya)

As for wahy, we do not know in concrete terms how it happens- this is not a simple inspiration or 'ilham'; the hearer does not have any vision of the speaker.  Hadith provides information like 'ringing of a bell'; he was not hearing distinct words spoken yet he understood what was being said to him.  it was a mysterious sound.  Direct communication was a divine favor bestowed upon Moses only.  Prophet Muhammad was an auditory type of prophet but Quran  makes reference to two incidents of the Mighty Being transmitting to him Allah's words.  53:1-8 and 81:15-25.

This being who made himself visible to the prophet was called by the symbolic name of ruh al-quds 16:102  and al-ruh al-amin 26:193

Quran is a revelation involving four- person verbal relation.  Rasul Gabriel was acting intermediary between God and His prophet.  Muhammad was acting intermediary between God and the world.

Wahi can be described as a kind of command, prompting into action like when God awhayna to Moses to throw down his staff and to the mother of Moses.  the words are not necessary

So, in short, I would not use the term inspiration in regards to Quran.  Bees and spiders maybe inspired but that means it is in their nature given by God before they came into existence.  Was Moses' mother conscious of the fact that it was her Lord guiding her to put the basket in the river or was she compelled to do it by a sudden urge?
"Hope is like a bird that senses the dawn and carefully starts to sing while it is still dark"

Offline Joseph Islam

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Re: Belongings of Prophet Muhammad (Peace be on him)
« Reply #8 on: October 24, 2012, 04:56:25 AM »
Dear Hope,

Peace to you.

Thanks for your post.

'Wahi' as an Arabic term has been used by the Quran to describe what was sent to Prophet Muhammad i.e. what was revealed to him.

021:045 (part)
“Say, I only warn you by the revelation (bil-wahyi)…”

In the above verse, the 'wahi' seems to suggest not only the process of inspiration but also what was actually revealed (i.e. the Quran). The following verse confirms this understanding.

053:004
“It is nothing except a revelation (wahyun) revealed (yuha)

What was revealed to Prophet Muhammad by ‘wahi’ for prophetic guidance has been confirmed in another verse as the Quran.

006:019 (part)
“…This Quran has been revealed to me by inspiration (wahi) that I may warn you and all whom it reaches….

I would also like to respectfully share a few other comments from my humble perspective.

There is an indication, albeit from the mouths of the disbelievers which alludes to how the Prophet 'possibly' received his communications i.e. 'adghathu ahlam' (21.5) which I would loosely translate as 'confused or muddled dreams'.

The charge of something being  'confused or muddled' (adghathu) impresses incredulity on the part of the disbelievers but the 'ahlam' (dreams) still remains a possibility as the vehicle through which at least some of the Prophetic communications took place.

You have also kindly shared sentiments from the point of view of secondary sources for which I would prefer to reserve judgment as my view in this thread has been primarily from a Quranic perspective.

However, I do find support for the assertion that the Pagan Arabs thought of the Prophet as 'possessed' by the jinn. This is more than implied by the literal rendition of the Arabic word 'majnun' (as someone who is possessed by the jinn) which was often an epithet given to the Prophet by those that mocked him (15.6).

You mention that "Direct communication was a divine favor bestowed upon Moses only". This is a statement that I would respectfully not entirely concur with. In my humble perspective, a truer reflection of the Quranic perspective is that the only person mentioned by name in the Quran that we know of that God  spoke to directly is Prophet Moses. The fact that others (not named by the Quran) were also directly spoken to is more than alluded to by the Arabic:

"min'hum man kallama-llahu" (Among them were those with whom God spoke) 2:253

The Quran does not furnish the details.

With regards the mother of Prophet Moses in verse 28:7, there are a number of communications that were sent to her by wahi.

  • To suckle the baby
  • Once fear developed for the safety of the child, to cast him in the river
  • Once cast, not to fear
  • The baby would be restored
  • He will become a messenger of God.

Whether her faith in God and elevated spiritual consciousness allowed her to be conscious of the suggestions / inclinations she was receiving will be open to debate.  However, given the extent of the process from suckle to messengership, I humbly feel that the mother of Prophet Moses had some cognizance on a wider scale. This was not simply a result of an impulsive urge to put a baby into a basket.

Regards,
Joseph.
'During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act' 
George Orwell

Offline HOPE

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Re: Belongings of Prophet Muhammad (Peace be on him)
« Reply #9 on: October 24, 2012, 06:10:09 AM »
Dear Joseph,

Appreciate your reply.

“…This Quran has been revealed to me by inspiration (wahi) that I may warn you and all whom it reaches…"  I object to the translation of wahi as inspiration here in 6:19 because we are talking about a Scripture/kitab/divine words that will stay with us till the end.  The wahi as an inspiration received by Moses and his mother do not have words we need to know.  They were inspired to act in a certain way, once it is accomplished, it is over. The rod changed into a snake and swallowed up what the magicians schemed.  It is not necessary for Moses to have the awareness of exact words but just the idea and act in accordance with it.  This is my understanding of inspiration.  I may be wrong as usual.

I come with peace and leave with peace.
"Hope is like a bird that senses the dawn and carefully starts to sing while it is still dark"

Offline Joseph Islam

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Re: Belongings of Prophet Muhammad (Peace be on him)
« Reply #10 on: October 24, 2012, 06:55:23 AM »
Dear Hope,

Peace to you,

I am not sure I understand your reason for your contention with the verses respectfully shared. Your objection seems to be founded on a theological understanding of 'wahi' you have formulated which i do not find proven in the Quran or your posts.

However, as always I respect your right to your opinion and your prerogative to disagree.

With peace,
Joseph.
'During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act' 
George Orwell

Offline Duster

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Re: Belongings of Prophet Muhammad (Peace be on him)
« Reply #11 on: October 24, 2012, 07:11:10 AM »

“…This Quran has been revealed to me by inspiration (wahi) that I may warn you and all whom it reaches…"  I object to the translation of wahi as inspiration here in 6:19 because we are talking about a Scripture/kitab/divine words that will stay with us till the end.


Peace / shalom Hope.

How does this mean that wahiy cannot mean inspiration just because we are talking about a scripture till the end???

Offline HOPE

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Re: Belongings of Prophet Muhammad (Peace be on him)
« Reply #12 on: October 24, 2012, 08:06:36 AM »
Peace Duster,

I never said wahi cannot mean inspiration.   Linguistically it can.  Wahy also means revelation.  What I was proposing was that it should be translated as revelation when the object is the Quran.  I gave the example of wahi received by Moses regarding his rod which should be translated as inspiration.  I am not off base here.  Wahy can mean revelation or inspiration.  I choose revelation for Quran.  Quran as the kalamullah, each word should reflect God's speech because it is a Scripture.  Do you know the words or kalamullah received by Moses' mother?  No, we know the general sentiment prompting her to action as it was intended.
 
"Hope is like a bird that senses the dawn and carefully starts to sing while it is still dark"

Offline Duster

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Re: Belongings of Prophet Muhammad (Peace be on him)
« Reply #13 on: October 24, 2012, 08:34:40 AM »
Peace Hope

So in verse 6/19 how would what you are proposing even make sense? The word used is wahiy and the object is the Quran. Are you proposing to translate it as "The Quran has been revealed to me by revelation"?? How does that work?

Offline HOPE

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Re: Belongings of Prophet Muhammad (Peace be on him)
« Reply #14 on: October 24, 2012, 09:19:24 AM »
Peace Duster,

"Allah is a Witness between me and you.  And this Quran has been revealed to me that I may warn you with it and those whom it reaches."

There is no need to repeat the words [revealed by a revelation.]  Revelation means something that is revealed; the meaning is inherent in the noun.
"Hope is like a bird that senses the dawn and carefully starts to sing while it is still dark"