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Offline Reader Questions

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Prophet Abraham asked to sacrifice his son?
« on: October 28, 2012, 05:46:25 PM »
Question by Saba for QM forum [by email]


Quote
Salaam br Joseph / all

I wanted to ask why when it is forbidden to take the life of a soul would Allah ask Prophet Abraham to sacrifice his son? Would it not have appeared strange to him and then prompt him to question the source of such a dream?  Thanks Saba

Offline QM Moderators Team

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Re: Prophet Abraham asked to sacrifice his son?
« Reply #1 on: October 28, 2012, 05:50:53 PM »
Dear Saba,

Please try logging into your account again. Login problems with your account should now be resolved.

If problem still persists, please email to let us now. Your question has been posted anyway.

Thanks

Offline Saba

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Re: Prophet Abraham asked to sacrifice his son?
« Reply #2 on: October 28, 2012, 08:57:05 PM »
Dear Saba,

Please try logging into your account again. Login problems with your account should now be resolved.

If problem still persists, please email to let us now. Your question has been posted anyway.

Thanks

Yay!! Thanks. All working ok now  8) ;D

Offline Sardar Miyan

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Re: Prophet Abraham asked to sacrifice his son?
« Reply #3 on: October 29, 2012, 01:14:30 AM »
Sister Saba Can you please qoute the Aya where Allah asked Abraham to sacrifice his son? Is it Sacrifice of life or sacrifice of worldly things in the way of Allah?
May entire creation be filled with Peace & Joy & Love & Light

Offline Saba

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Re: Prophet Abraham asked to sacrifice his son?
« Reply #4 on: October 29, 2012, 02:12:34 AM »
Sister Saba Can you please qoute the Aya where Allah asked Abraham to sacrifice his son? Is it Sacrifice of life or sacrifice of worldly things in the way of Allah?

Salaam br. Sardar. Please see 37.102 - 37.110

Offline Talib

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Re: Prophet Abraham asked to sacrifice his son?
« Reply #5 on: October 29, 2012, 10:42:27 AM »
Dear Sr. Saba

Salamun Alaikum

I found related info in another thread. I would like to share it with you, hoping that it will add to the perspective.

Please check :

http://quransmessage.com/forum/index.php?topic=618.0


Hope it helps.

Regards.

Offline Duster

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Re: Prophet Abraham asked to sacrifice his son?
« Reply #6 on: October 29, 2012, 01:26:33 PM »
Peace / shalom

Along with to bro Talib's link, please also see answer to similar q by bro Joseph on another link I found.


http://quransmessage.com/forum/index.php?topic=178.msg473#msg473


Quote
Salamun Alaikum,

At no place in the Quran does it say that God asked for the sacrifice. We have to clear our minds completely of everything we have learnt since childhood and 'rethink' and ponder from the Quran to ascertain its true perspective.

We note from the Quran:

(a)   At no place does the Quran say that God asked or 'inspired' Prophet Abraham to kill his son. Note that God does 'inspire' his servants as he did with Mary to put her baby into the water (28:7)

(b)   At no place does the Quran say that God sent Prophet Abraham the dream. The Quran only says that Prophet Abraham had a dream (37:102). The Quran clearly informs us when God does inspire dreams such as with Prophet Muhammad (17:60; 48:27; 8:43) and those visions that are fulfilled such as with Prophet Joseph (12:4; 12:100). However, Prophet Abraham's vision was 'stopped' by God (37:104-5)


We also know from the Quran that God does not advocate humans to be killed or do evil acts. God only commands and enjoins justice (16:90)

All the Quran informs us is that Prophet Abraham had a dream (37:102), he wasn't sure about the nature of the dream, so he sought his son's opinion (37:102). His son believed it from God and they both continued to submit to the task thinking it was from God. God stopped them in time (37:104-5) and God informed them that they had fulfilled the dream. There is a strong implication that this was because they had already 'submitted' in purpose to what they believed was from God.

Given this huge undertaking that they were willing to submit to, this was called a 'manifest trial' (balau-l'mubeen).

I hope this helps, God willing.
Joseph.








Offline HOPE

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Re: Prophet Abraham asked to sacrifice his son?
« Reply #7 on: October 29, 2012, 02:19:35 PM »
Salaam,

Quote
I wanted to ask why when it is forbidden to take the life of a soul would Allah ask Prophet Abraham to sacrifice his son? Would it not have appeared strange to him and then prompt him to question the source of such a dream?

I believe sister Saba is only questioning why Prophet Abraham was so quick to conclude that the source of his dream was God, knowing that God would not demand an innocent person to be killed.
"Hope is like a bird that senses the dawn and carefully starts to sing while it is still dark"

Offline Duster

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Re: Prophet Abraham asked to sacrifice his son?
« Reply #8 on: October 29, 2012, 02:52:59 PM »
Peace hope

I am not sure Abraham (SA) was quick to conclude that the dream was from Allah. Otherwise, why would he ask his son for his opinion? I think they concluded that it was from Allah and then submitted thinking it was from Allah. Until Allah intervened. But from my reading of the verse, I don't see a rush to conclude and would agree with bro Joseph's statement where he says ....>
Quote
" he wasn't sure about the nature of the dream, so he sought his son's opinion (37:102)"

Offline HOPE

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Re: Prophet Abraham asked to sacrifice his son?
« Reply #9 on: October 29, 2012, 04:20:50 PM »
Salaam Duster,

Only the son can make that decision based on the premise 'my life, my sacrifice ... for God", not Abraham since it is not his life.  As a parent it is the most difficult thing to do.  I would give my life rather than take part in the act.  What would you do?
"Hope is like a bird that senses the dawn and carefully starts to sing while it is still dark"

Offline Duster

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Re: Prophet Abraham asked to sacrifice his son?
« Reply #10 on: October 29, 2012, 06:15:48 PM »
Peace hope

If Abraham thought it was a clear command from Allah, do you think he would have entered into a discussion with his son and risk the son to say no and then disobey Allah's command? Do you think he would be negotiating with son whether he should offer up his life even though Allah had clearly commanded it? No. I don't think so. No where does it say that Allah sent the dream. Can you find a clear statement that says Allah sent a dream or commanded Abraham (SA)?

Offline Saba

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Re: Prophet Abraham asked to sacrifice his son?
« Reply #11 on: October 29, 2012, 06:41:37 PM »
Thank you all for your comments  ;D :)

br Dunster - Re: the following quote ........


Quote
(b)   At no place does the Quran say that God sent Prophet Abraham the dream. The Quran only says that Prophet Abraham had a dream (37:102). The Quran clearly informs us when God does inspire dreams such as with Prophet Muhammad (17:60; 48:27; 8:43) and those visions that are fulfilled such as with Prophet Joseph (12:4; 12:100). However, Prophet Abraham's vision was 'stopped' by God (37:104-5)[/color]

Actually that is a good point ...when Allah shows a dream he clearly mentions in the Quran that it is from Him or that He has something to do with it.

17.60 - We granted the vision which We showed thee
48.27 - Truly did Allah fulfil the vision for His Messenger
8.43 - Remember in thy dream Allah showed them to thee as few

In 37.102 - the only mention is that Prophet Abraham had a dream. It doesn't say the dream was from Allah. I'm still not 100% myself, but some very persuasive points have been made / shared. Thanks to all. Saba



Offline HOPE

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Re: Prophet Abraham asked to sacrifice his son?
« Reply #12 on: October 29, 2012, 08:37:58 PM »
Salaam,
 
 It is not a characteristic of Abraham not to question the wisdom behind his interpretation of the dream. 

"My Lord is He who gives life and takes it away"; "O Lord! Show me how thou gives life to the dead....yes! but my heart needs some sign of assurance"

In his symbolic story, he reasons with his heart and discovers his connection with God.  He would abandon his father just like Moses abandons the Pharaoh's court or Muhammad his home and heritage in pursuit of God.  Yet Abraham prays for his father.

If I can put myself in his shoes, the result would be different.  I would tear my heart out begging that He take my life instead of asking me to do the impossible or take away both of our lives right there.  If I receive no response, then I would have to choose the punishment and kill myself. 

I am not trying to be melodramatic; just trying to reason with my heart. I am given two things- my life and my child.  My life is a total gift in that I had no say so in my coming to life whereas with the child I'm a co-creator with the God-given maternal instinct that I cannot turn it off.

"Hope is like a bird that senses the dawn and carefully starts to sing while it is still dark"

Offline Mubashir

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Re: Prophet Abraham asked to sacrifice his son?
« Reply #13 on: October 30, 2012, 04:01:23 PM »
Salam All

To consider a new perspective, some have suggested that this was not at all about slaughtering Ibrahim's son!! (Which is why Ibrahim asked his son's opinion). It was about a journey to a barren land where both father and son were to go and establish a House dedicated to Allah Alone. The sacrifice was about (they say) leaving all the comforts of home and migrating to an inhospitable spot! Do these translators have a case. Here is one by Dr. Kamal Omar who is mostly traditional (unlike Parwez or Dr. Shabbir):


37:102 So when he attained (reached the age of), ‘striving and effort along with him’, he (the father) said: “O my little son! I do see during the sleep that I will offer you in sacrifice (to some Cause of Allah), so look what you think.” He said: “O my dear father! Implement what you would be commanded; soon you would find me, in-shaa-Allaho [if Allah (so) willed] out of those who patiently persevere ."

37:103 So when both submitted (themselves), and he (Ibrahim) made him (Ismaiel) ready for Al-Jabeen [the forehead (i.e., , the events which Ismaiel would face as a sacrifice in the Way of Allah)] ,

37:104 instantly, We called out to him (saying) that: " O Ibrahim!

37:105 Indeed, you have fulfilled the vision (dream)!” Verily, thus We do reward the Muhsinun .

37:106 Verily, this (vision): indeed that (is) an obvious test and preparation!

37:107 And We interpreted unto him (the contents of the vision, and physically implemented Our Plan) through a Great Sacrifice .

37:108 And We established for him among the later generations —

Offline Wakas

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Re: Prophet Abraham asked to sacrifice his son?
« Reply #14 on: October 30, 2012, 06:56:44 PM »
salaam all,

My understanding is as follows:

37:102 When he grew enough to work with him, he said, "My son, I am seeing in a dream that I am sacrificing you (i.e. giving you up) for a noble cause. What do you think?" He said, "O my father, do what you are commanded to do. You will find me, God willing, patient.
37:103 So when they both submitted (or became peaceful), and he (Abraham) brought him to his forehead.*
37:104 And We called to him: "O Abraham,
37:105 You have fulfilled the vision." It is such that We reward the doers of good.
37:106 Surely, this was a clear test.
37:107 We exchanged him with a tremendous sacrifice.
37:108 And we left for him among the later generations.

*Root: Ta-Lam-Lam: lay one down upon one's kin (neck/cheek/breast), or forehead in this case. This could be commonly done when one says goodbye to a loved one such as a son/daughter/etc.
Note how it says he "fulfilled the vision".

Giving up one's son for a noble cause (e.g. spreading the message) is indeed an exacting test, and a tremendous sacrifice.

Note how in the story of Abraham, as per Quran, he is not mentioned being with his two sons at the same time, and that Ishmael is never mentioned being with Isaac at the same place, implying a separation. Abraham is also never mentioned with Isaac in the latter half of the story in Quran. This provides a perfect fit with the above theory.