Allah does not change His laws

[Sardar Miyan]

While Allah can do every thing why do  some people say  that  He does not change His laws. How does it is correct? Thanks for enlightening.

[HOPE]

Peace Sardar,

God says, 33:62  "Such is the way of God concerning those who have passed away before, and never shall you find in the way of God any change"

48:23 "(Such has been) the course of God that came to pass before; you will never find any change to the course of God."

We see many examples in the Quran the constancy God exhibits in how He deals with those who choose to ignore Him and His rasul in all ages.  Pattern ranges from sealing of hearts to destruction.  This is the sunnatullah.

[Sardar Miyan]

Allah can & will change if He likes or needed I think

[Joseph Islam]

Dear brother Sardar,

As-salamu alaykum

There have already been some comprehensive posts shared on this forum with regards this topic [1], [2] which I feel you might find very relevant.

Just on a side note, may I kindly and respectfully suggest that with a view to avoid any repetition, that you could possibly consider making use of the search facility (at the top right of the board) to see whether the topic has already been covered (if you do not already). Thank you dear brother.

I hope this helps, God willing.

Regards,
Joseph.


REFERENCES

[1] Does Allah Change His Laws?
http://quransmessage.com/forum/index.php?topic=446
[2] Four Birds or Four Parts of the Bird?
http://quransmessage.com/forum/index.php?topic=417

[Sardar Miyan]

Thank you Bro JAI.You have given a detailed reply to Bro Jawaid but I could not read other parts of discussions with you,Truth Seeker & Mubashir which I may go through but Bro Wakas had given Shakirs Tafseer about Four Birds in the last in August 2012 that the Birds were trained.I think this is unique translation.Thanks

[optimist]

I think this is unique translation.Thanks

Salam,

It is unique because it explains how (the method) "to give life to dead", how to resurrect a nation which is dead (قَالَ أَنَّىٰ يُحْيِي هَٰذِهِ اللَّهُ بَعْدَ مَوْتِهَا  2:259).  It teaches us the importance of conquering the hearts of people (taming birds, i.e people) to make revolutionary changes in the nation.  The traditional transalation does not teach HOW, the method, to give life to dead.  If what was expected was just to see some dead birds/ human beings were given life, it would be equal to demanding a miracle from Allah (not expected from a prophet who is directly communicating with Allah).  The nature of people who demand miracles to confirm their faith in Allah is stated in the Quran itself as "even if dead speak to them they will not believe". 

Also, it is not expected from  a prophet to actually carry out the directions to see that Allah can give life to dead (if it was meant to cut birds into pieces to see they are brought to life again).  If the purpose was to show that Allah can give life to dead, Allah could have chosen someone already died there (may be a year or couple of years before) to resurrect from the grave and talk to them (because assuming the traditional translation is correct, what was expected from the question from the prophet was to see a dead human being getting resurrected).

This will be my ONE and only post under this thread since I already got involved earlier in the same discussion.

Regards,
Optimist

[Duster]

it would be equal to demanding a miracle from Allah (not expected from a prophet who is directly communicating with Allah).  The nature of people who demand miracles to confirm their faith in Allah is stated in the Quran itself as "even if dead speak to them they will not believe". 

Shalom / Peace Optimist

I would just like to say that the way I see it .... your understanding was utterly debunked in the second link provided by bro Joseph. You couldn't really backup your claims or provide any evidence for his arguments and neither could Javed in the first convincingly.

As bro Joseph said:

To impose new allegorical meanings which were never understood by its primary Jewish and Christian audience for me is intellectually unacceptable. Therefore, I will add a fourth, fifth and sixth question to my list of academic contentions that challenge those that deny the Quran's clear testimony of portents.

• Given God's infinite capacity, please provide clear Quranic proof that He cannot temporarily suspend / alter / interfere with the laws He himself has created as and when 'He so wills' to manifest a particular truth
• What did God stop / withhold / arrest / prevent / refrain / suspend (mana) in 17:59 going forward that He had sent to previous communities?
• How could God stop something (17:59) He did before, if He did not alter His ways?
• Why does the Quran 'confirm' (musaddiqan) the traditional understanding of the Jewish and Christian audience at the time of the Prophet's ministry with regards portents and not challenge it?
• Why does the Quran use similar terms in the Arabic language to support the existing understanding of the Jews and Christians regarding portents?
• Why would one not accept the Quran's clear testimony, even though the Quran says it is not a book of riddles and has no crookedness?
  "...qur'anan arabiyyan ghayra dhi iwajin ..." (A Quran in Arabic without any crookedness...)

Instead you ended up pasting long paragraphs from Parvez which is also the school of thought I think is followed by Javed..........this is where for me the Parvezi methodology breaks down as it does not deal with all the Quran's verses but dismisses it.

>>but as I would not want to rehash an old thread, I won't say much more. I just wanted to give you my take on this as you chose to make a comment on a matter which was laid to rest some time ago.

[Joseph Islam]

Dear Duster,

May peace be with you.

Thank you so much for your post and the citation of my position.

I completely agree with you that this is an old discussion that is best left for the readers to peruse unless new strong evidence from the Quran can be offered as a convincing counter argument.

As you will no doubt agree with me, all readers are respected on this forum to part with their views as long as they do not breach the spirit of the forum policy.

It is nice to see different view-points being shared and debated as long as they do not lead to acrimonious exchange.

I really welcome your posts as I do Optimists, respected objections by Jawaid and all those that kindly share their wisdom on this forum.

There is always an opportunity for all of us to learn.

Before parting, I would kindly once again urge individuals to first ascertain whether a matter has already been discussed by using the search facility before starting a new thread. This will hopefully avoid unnecessary duplication.

May God bless you all.

Regards,
Joseph. 

[Sardar Miyan]

Bro Javed Ghamidi has described GA Perwaiz"s translations very well in the past as he takes different view of Ayaaths.

[Truth Seeker]

Salaam Optomist,


You make several incorrect points but you are stopping a two way discussion to develop.

It would have been better to provide a link to your 'earlier discussion' instead of adding more points in this thread.

[HOPE]

Peace Truth Seeker,

I would like to add and remind the participants that the initial question posed by brother Sardar was "why do  some people say  that  He does not change His laws".  In my view there is one simple answer:  it is not the people but God Himself makes that claim.  Then I got lost with the four dead birds.  I cannot follow anymore.

[Truth Seeker]

Salaam Hope,


The reason Joseph posted a link to the '4 birds' was because it is related to God changing his laws.
God changes certain laws when he wants to create miracles but the majority of the time the laws of nature are fixed.