Author [EN] [PL] [ES] [PT] [IT] [DE] [FR] [NL] [TR] [SR] [AR] [RU] Topic: Missing Fast In Ramadhan

Offline Ami

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 2
    • View Profile
Missing Fast In Ramadhan
« on: July 18, 2013, 02:41:57 AM »
Salam

I know we must pay compensation if we miss fast during Ramadhan.
But is it true that if we missed fast in Ramadhan, do we need to replace it with another fast outside of Ramadhan month?
My teacher/friends said, if you didn't replace the fast by the time of the next Ramadhan, you must replaced the fast two times more.
Example: If I miss 2 days fast in Ramadhan 2012, and I didn't replaced by Ramadhan 2013, then I must fast for 4 days after Ramadhan 2013.

Also, I just recently had been starting my Quran teaching, and just realise that I can fast during my menstruation. Do I need to replace or make compensation for all the fast that I missed due to menstruation during my ignorance?

Would appreciate your reply and thank you for you reply. :)

Offline Joseph Islam

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1852
    • View Profile
    • The Quran and its Message
Re: Missing Fast In Ramadhan
« Reply #1 on: July 20, 2013, 05:38:06 AM »
Dear Ami,

Wa alaikum assalam and welcome to the board  :)

In accordance with verse 2:184, if you miss a fast due to sickness or because you are on a journey, then you can make up the number of fasts missed at a later date. If you do not fast, then there is a 'fidya' (redemption / a ransom or an exchange like for like). This is the feeding of a needy person. 

Of course, it would arguably be advisable to make up the fasts missed before the onset of the following Ramadan. However, there is no evidence in the Quran for the claims made by your teacher.

With regards 'menstruation', there is no explicit mention in the Quran that prohibits women from fasting during this time. However, some women do feel discomfort during this time and do not feel well enough to fast. Therefore arguably those women are best advised to make their fasts up later or give a 'fidya'.

With regards your question, "Do I need to replace or make compensation for all the fast that I missed due to menstruation during my ignorance?” there is a question of 'intent'. The Quran does share verses in which there is much wisdom to extract on this matter.

A general example is cited:

"...And there is no blame for you in the mistakes that you make unintentionally, but what your hearts intended (that will be a sin for you). And God is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful...." (33:5 - part)

Please also see 2:225 and 5:89.

I hope this helps, God willing.
Joseph.
'During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act' 
George Orwell

Offline Sardar Miyan

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 970
    • View Profile
Re: Missing Fast In Ramadhan
« Reply #2 on: July 20, 2013, 06:01:54 PM »
Assalam Bro. Does old age can be taken as sickness sine a pretty old person can not be without food & drinks for many hours. Secondly, I know how Muslims will stay in mosques for the last ten days as I'tikaaf. Some say that is not right. Then can you please tell me how to fulfill I'tikaaf ? Thanks
May entire creation be filled with Peace & Joy & Love & Light

Offline Joseph Islam

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1852
    • View Profile
    • The Quran and its Message
Re: Missing Fast In Ramadhan
« Reply #3 on: July 20, 2013, 07:47:22 PM »
Dear brother Sardar,

Wa alaikum assalam

At the end of the day, the Quran informs us that our religious duties are governed by 'istata'at' (what one is able to do).

064:016
“So keep your duty to God as best you can / what you are able (Arabic: ma is’tata’tum), and listen, and obey, and spend; that is better for your souls. And whoso is saved from his own greed, such are the successful”

If one opts not to keep fasts for whatever reason, then the option to give 'fidya' (ransom) is always present as per verse 2:184. This would be a little different from sickness or travel where the option to make up missed fasts at a later time is granted.

I would not necessarily equate 'old age' with 'sickness' unless a particular ailment which hinders one to fast has come by way of old age. In that case, it may not be possible to make the fasts up later. Hence a 'fidya' may be a more appropriate solution if it can be managed.

With regards 'iktikaaf' [1], I would personally highly encourage as much devotion and reflection as possible in this month, even at mosques if it helps one to contemplate better. However, this has nothing to do with searching for a 'blessed night' or only committing such devotion in the last ten nights of Ramadan.

'Akifuna' is mentioned in verse 2:187 where it is understood as a seclusion / a place of retreat / stay that believers made to the mosques in the month of Ramadan.


I hope this helps, God willing.
Joseph.


REFERENCE

[1] Itikaaf
http://quransmessage.com/forum/index.php?topic=500.msg1619#msg1619
'During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act' 
George Orwell

Offline Sardar Miyan

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 970
    • View Profile
Re: Missing Fast In Ramadhan
« Reply #4 on: July 21, 2013, 06:33:42 AM »
Jazakalla Bro JAI for enlightening me.
May entire creation be filled with Peace & Joy & Love & Light

Offline Ami

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 2
    • View Profile
Re: Missing Fast In Ramadhan
« Reply #5 on: July 22, 2013, 12:47:27 AM »
Thank you brother Joseph Islam for providing such a detail explanation.

Offline Osman

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 10
    • View Profile
Re: Missing Fast In Ramadhan
« Reply #6 on: June 28, 2014, 10:01:58 AM »
Brother Joseph wrote: "If one opts not to keep fasts for whatever reason, then the option to give 'fidya' (ransom) is always present as per verse 2:184"

Does that imply that I can opt not to keep fasts for no genuine reason, and pay fidya instead? If that's true, what would be the fidya?

Regards.

Offline Joseph Islam

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1852
    • View Profile
    • The Quran and its Message
Re: Missing Fast In Ramadhan
« Reply #7 on: July 02, 2014, 01:56:37 AM »
Brother Joseph wrote: "If one opts not to keep fasts for whatever reason, then the option to give 'fidya' (ransom) is always present as per verse 2:184"

Does that imply that I can opt not to keep fasts for no genuine reason, and pay fidya instead? If that's true, what would be the fidya?

Regards.

Dear Osman

As-salam alaykum

From my humble perspective of the Quran, that is correct.

If you do not fast, then there is a 'fidya' (redemption / a ransom or an exchange like for like). This is the feeding of a needy person. (fid'yatun ta'-amu miskinin 2:184). This should be the equivalent of what you would have eaten in accordance to your means. (For equivalent feeding - See 5:89)

However, notwithstanding the option granted to believers to give 'fidya', it remains noteworthy that God says it is better if one fasts (wa-an tasumu khayrun lakum in kuntum ta'lamun) 2:184.

I hope that helps, God willing.
Joseph


RELATED MATERIAL:

[1] Fasting Whilst Pregnant
http://quransmessage.com/forum/index.php?topic=1318.msg6142#msg6142
[2] Missing Fasts for Ramadan and Compensation
http://quransmessage.com/forum/index.php?topic=504.0
[3] Saum
http://quransmessage.com/forum/index.php?topic=221.msg609#msg609
[4] Difference Between 'Isha' and 'Layl' in Context of Prayers and Fasting
http://quransmessage.com/forum/index.php?topic=938.0
[5] Can Women Pray and Fast During Menstruation?
http://quransmessage.com/forum/index.php?topic=163.0
[6] Praying and Fasting During Menses and Covering the Hair
http://quransmessage.com/forum/index.php?topic=473.0
[7] Discussing Fasting till Night
http://quransmessage.com/forum/index.php?topic=498.0
[8] Fasting on the Day of Ashura
http://quransmessage.com/forum/index.php?topic=194.0
[9] Fasting in Muharram and the Four Sacred Months
http://quransmessage.com/forum/index.php?topic=181.0
[10] When is the Best Time To Open the Fast According to the Quran?
http://quransmessage.com/forum/index.php?topic=470.0
[11] Purpose of Fasting    
https://www.facebook.com/joseph.a.islam/posts/152870954850040
[12] End of Ramadan and Allegiances
https://www.facebook.com/joseph.a.islam/posts/306789579458176
[13] Ramadan
https://www.facebook.com/joseph.a.islam/posts/295397723930695
[14] FASTING IS PRESCRIBED UNTIL NIGHT NOT SUNSET
http://quransmessage.com/articles/fasting%20till%20night%20FM3.htm
[15] TIME OF FAJR AND THE END OF SEHRI IN THE MONTH OF RAMADAN
http://quransmessage.com/articles/fasting%20and%20ramadan%20FM3.htm
'During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act' 
George Orwell

Offline Osman

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 10
    • View Profile
Re: Missing Fast In Ramadhan
« Reply #8 on: July 07, 2014, 02:39:49 PM »
Dear brother Joseph,

Thank you for the reply.

There is a prevalent point of view according to which some directives of fasting prescribed in 2:184 were abrogated by the very next verse 2:185. Allow me to copy and paste this whole argument below along with the source of the article from where I got it:

"...the very next verse beginning with the words شَهْرُ رَمَضَانَ الَّذِيَ أُنزِلَ فِيهِ الْقُرْآنُ shows that the permission to feed a needy for a missed fast was later revoked. Consequently, the whole directive has been repeated after this verse while omitting the words beginning with وَعَلَى الَّذِينَ يُطِيقُونَهُ and  ending  with إِن كُنتُمْ تَعْلَمُونَ. Since it is difficult to fast in days other than Ramadan, the Almighty did not make it incumbent until people got used to it. Hence, it has been said in the Qur’an that feeding the needy for missed fasts has been revoked so that people could keep their missed fasts and are thus not deprived of the blessings hidden in them."

Source: http://www.monthly-renaissance.com/issue/content.aspx?id=90

I would like to hear your thoughts on this matter. Is it really the case that the directives of 2:184 were abrogated by the later verse? If so, how does that fit in with the wat Muslims have been traditionally fasting all these centuries?

Regards,
Osman.

Offline Joseph Islam

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1852
    • View Profile
    • The Quran and its Message
Re: Missing Fast In Ramadhan
« Reply #9 on: July 07, 2014, 02:59:49 PM »
Dear Osman,

As-salam alaykum

Although I have much respect for the academic work that the Mawrid Institute conducts (of which I understand the Renaissance site that you have referenced is an affiliate), there are areas of their thought which I do not agree with. Firstly, the concept of 'abrogation' cannot be supported by the Quran. This is arguably one of the most dangerous, highly controversial and baseless assertion against the Divine scripture of God.

What seems to lie at the core of the doctrine of abrogation is the clear inability of certain early classical scholars to reconcile certain passages of the Quran with others. Later scholars that rely on earlier interpretations and traditions captured within Islamic Secondary Sources without critique, only accentuate the problem by passing on the 'baggage of confusion' to later theologians.

I have discussed this in the article [1] below.

Notwithstanding that the abrogation premise is arguably unwarranted, within the explanation excerpt that you have provided; there is much interpolation by the author of the article which cannot be explicitly supported by the Quran. For example, the statement "Since it is difficult to fast in days other than Ramadan, the Almighty did not make it incumbent until people got used to it." is an interpolation from which a conclusion is then made.

I hope that clarifies my humble perspective.

Kind regards,
Joseph


REFERENCE:

[1] ABROGATION - A FALSE DOCTRINE
http://quransmessage.com/articles/abrogation%20FM3.htm
'During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act' 
George Orwell

Offline Osman

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 10
    • View Profile
Re: Missing Fast In Ramadhan
« Reply #10 on: July 07, 2014, 11:42:33 PM »
Dear brother Joseph,

Walakum Salaam.

Thanks for your reply. I find your perspective to fit all parameters of logic. Theory of abrogated verses indeed seems like a man-made phenomena rather than something natural to God's book.

The only bit of puzzle that doesn't seem to fit is, the placement of this verse  شَهْرُ رَمَضَانَ الَّذِيَ أُنزِلَ فِيهِ الْقُرْآنُ. What does it really signify, given that abrogation is an invalid concept...?

I mean, what does this verse mean in the context of other verses around it? Is it referring to the "few days" mentioned in the previous verse? I mean, can I read this verse as follows, with my understanding added in the brackets:

"(Those few days mentioned in the previous verse is actually) the month of Ramadhan, in which Quran was revealed."






Offline Joseph Islam

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1852
    • View Profile
    • The Quran and its Message
Re: Missing Fast In Ramadhan
« Reply #11 on: July 08, 2014, 12:48:24 AM »
Dear Osman,

As-salam alaykum

I read verse 2:185 as simply a clarification verse.

This verse simply makes clear that the Quran was revealed, or at least, its inception as an ‘inspiration’ to the prophet was during a period which the Arabs understood as ‘Ramadan’. Hence, the month was given special mention by the Quran.

The Quran further clarifies this inception of guidance as being revealed on a particular blessed night.

044.002-4
"By the Book that makes things clear (manifests the truth). We revealed it (Arabic: Anzalnahu) in a Blessed Night (Arabic: laylati-mubarkatin). Indeed we are ever warning. Therein is made distinct every affair of wisdom"

As mentioned, this night happened to fall in the Arab month of Ramadan (2:185). Please see below article [1] where I have discussed this in more detail.

It is important to remember that fasting has been prescribed to monotheistic communities before the advent of Islam in Arabia (2:184).

From a believer’s perspective, it is prescribed for two reasons which ultimately lead to taqwa (2:183):

"…so that you should complete the prescribed period and that you magnify God FOR HAVING GUIDED YOU (ala ma hadakum) and that you may be GRATEFUL (walaʿallakum tashkurun)" (2:185)

As I am sure you will appreciate, how else would believers truly attain righteousness, piety, self-restraint or God consciousness (taqwa) – 2:183, if it was not for God's guidance through His revelations?

I hope this helps, God willing
Joseph


REFERENCE:

[1] LAILUT-UL QADR - AN UNDERSTANDING FROM A QURANIC PERSPECTIVE
http://quransmessage.com/articles/night%20of%20power%20FM3.htm

 
'During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act' 
George Orwell

Offline Osman

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 10
    • View Profile
Re: Missing Fast In Ramadhan
« Reply #12 on: July 08, 2014, 08:59:55 AM »
Dear brother Joseph,

Thanks for your prompt response.

While re-reading verse 2:184 and 2:185, some more questions came to mind:

1. In 2:184, the only reasons mentioned for which one could give fidya or observe missed fasts later, is either being sick or being on a journey. I was not able to find this verse endorsing any other valid reasons. I would humbly request you to shed some more light on this. Please allow me to be a bit candid here: What I am really interested in knowing is whether "deliberately" skipping a fast and giving fidya instead, make me a sinner? I understand that God says its better if one fasts. But I just want to assure myself that I am not sinning during those "once in a while" occasions when I skip the fast for maybe no specific reason. So I would really appreciate if you can elaborate the meaning of this verse a little more.

2. Why is it that in 2:185 the option to give fidya is not mentioned?

Regards,
Osman

Offline Joseph Islam

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1852
    • View Profile
    • The Quran and its Message
Re: Missing Fast In Ramadhan
« Reply #13 on: July 08, 2014, 12:38:42 PM »
Dear Osman,

As-salam alaykum

Please see my responses to your comments / question in blue italics

Thanks for your prompt response.

While re-reading verse 2:184 and 2:185, some more questions came to mind:

1. In 2:184, the only reasons mentioned for which one could give fidya or observe missed fasts later, is either being sick or being on a journey. I was not able to find this verse endorsing any other valid reasons.


With respect, this is incorrect. The Quran makes it clear that if you are ill or an a journey, the prescribed fasts should be made later. This is given by the Arabic thus:

"...Faman kana minkum maridan aw ala safarin fa’iddatun min ayyamin ukhara"
“...So whoever among you is sick or on a journey, then other prescribed number of days.”

Then the Quran says: ‘wa’la’ (And on) – a separate clause:

Alladhina yutiqunahu fid’yatun…
(those who are able, a ransom…)

Now this category ‘who are able’ is under scrutiny and pivotal to your question. Who are the category of who are able but arguably don’t fast?

  • Those that may endure hardship whilst fasting
  • Those that simply don’t fast for whatever reason

Now I humbly believe that the following needs to be considered here:

'Fidya' means a ransom, redemption, an exchange (like for like) or something similar, or to free one from an obligation by way of compensation, or even an exchange (man for man) etc. Therefore, if someone made up the fasts later, there would be no need for a ‘fidya’ as this would not be a ‘ransom’ but something additional. In other words, this would not be called a 'fidya'. Therefore, ‘fidya’ in verse 2:184 is connected with a complete separate situation as suggested by the two points above.

Now some interpreters do incline to accepting (1) as plausible i.e. Those that may endure hardship whilst fasting. That is, that they can redeem their fast by giving a fidya if they are to encounter hardship whilst fasting. This is despite there being no ‘hardship’ as a proviso mentioned in the Arabic text. This can be deemed as an interpolation.

Now although some Arabic dictionaries allow ‘Ataqa’ to have two meanings, i.e.:

  • To be able to do a thing and
  • To be able to do a thing but find extremely hard and difficult to bear

...the problem with reading ‘hardship’ into the verse gives rise to a possible contradiction with the very next verse, 2:185 with regards fasting, where the Quran clearly says that "God desires ease and intends no hardship". So to assert that 'yutiqu' in 2:184 implies hardship or to lean to this interpretation, can be deemed problematic from a Quranic perspective.

My understanding of the verb form (IV) 'ataqa' used in verse 2:184 in the imperfect 'yutiqu' is to mean 'those who are able to' in its primary sense. The word 'difficultly' is implicit and not 'explicit' as a suitable term for 'difficulty' could have been used and can be deemed contradictory with God’s desire not to inflict hardship on His servants.

Therefore  phrase 'alladhina utiqunahu' simply reads those that are capable of it, or are able to do it (with the implication - but choose not to).

Therefore you have the following scenarios from verse 2:184:

  • Cannot fast due to illness – Make up later
  • Cannot fast due to travel – Make up later
  • Do not fast (for whatever reason) – Give fidya (although it is better if one fasts (2:184) i.e. this is arguably the lowest form of ‘imaan’)

I would humbly request you to shed some more light on this. Please allow me to be a bit candid here: What I am really interested in knowing is whether "deliberately" skipping a fast and giving fidya instead, make me a sinner?

I am not convinced this makes one a sinner. However, it is the arguably the lowest form of ‘imaan’ given the fact that God makes it clear that it is better if one fasts. This would, from my humble perspective, be a clear indication that one’s spiritual state may be at its lowest ebb.

I understand that God says its better if one fasts. But I just want to assure myself that I am not sinning during those "once in a while" occasions when I skip the fast for maybe no specific reason.

Please see my previous response. I cannot say something is a ‘sin’ if it is not clearly indicated by the Quran. However as already intimated, there is a very strong argument from the text, that it may be an indication of a frail ‘imaan’ and one should use this as an opportunity to sincerely revisit their priorities.

2. Why is it that in 2:185 the option to give fidya is not mentioned?

This is because it is already mentioned in the previous verse. If one dismisses the dubious doctrine of ‘abrogation’, one only sees the verses of the Quran as complimentary or elucidatory and not in conflict.

I hope this helps, God willing.

Regards,
Joseph
'During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act' 
George Orwell

Offline Osman

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 10
    • View Profile
Re: Missing Fast In Ramadhan
« Reply #14 on: July 08, 2014, 01:36:00 PM »
Dear brother Joseph,

I can't thank you enough for so patiently responding to my queries! It's much appreciated :)

May God bless you.

Regards.