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Offline Nura

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women and hajj
« on: August 17, 2013, 03:50:34 AM »
Salam All,

I was studying up on hajj, and came across the rule made by Saudi Arabian authority that states that women who have no mahram are exempted from performing hajj, as in hajj is not obligatory for these women no matter if they are capable of performing it financially and health-wise.

Is this Quranic? aren't they sinning, if they are banning women from performing something that Allah made obligatory?
what do you guys think?

Thank you..
Not all those who wander are lost - J.R.R. Tolkien

Offline HOPE

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Re: women and hajj
« Reply #1 on: August 17, 2013, 07:54:04 AM »
Peace to you Nura,

You are correct.  It is un-Quranic.  If I'm not mistaken Sharia rules do not allow women to travel alone especially in Saudi Arabia.  I know of someone in Canada who  tagged along with her colleagues to make the hajj pretending they were her mahram.  I do not know how kinship has to be proved.  Which is more sinful?  To deceive or the laws of the country that lead one to lie in order to make the hajj?


"Hope is like a bird that senses the dawn and carefully starts to sing while it is still dark"

Offline Ismail

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Re: women and hajj
« Reply #2 on: October 15, 2013, 02:55:34 AM »
Salaam.

We cannot blame any government or organization for formulating statutes in order to curb obscenity.

Shirking all kinds of obscenities is one of the core values and on no account can core values be compromised. This is a common thread that runs through all Scriptures.

Guarding against obscenities is everyone's fundamental duty. Governments that host congregations like Hajj are also no less responsible in preventing obscenities.

Regards,
A. Ismail Sait.

Offline AbbsRay

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Woman in Haijj
« Reply #3 on: January 21, 2014, 07:19:24 AM »
They are delusional and evil in the head....

This is what they have among many more rules...."All women are required to travel for Hajj with a Mariam. Proof of kinship must be submitted with the application form. Women over the age of fortifier (45) may travel without a Mariam with an organized group, They must, however submits a no objection letter from her husband, son or brother authorizing her to travel for Hajj with the named group. This letter should be notarized."

This is not about to "curb obscenity" Ismail. It does not surprise me that the women have no rights that Allah gave them. This is NOT about curbing obscenity. This is about the satanic Sharia delusion that it is NOT authorized by Allah. Oppression on women because of their low self esteem, CONTROL and very much being misguided! So is their law on women not allowed to drive in Saudi also to curbing obscenity??  Among many many more. They want to observe Islamic laws, than they better start studding their Qurran and really understand it. Not Hadith or Sunni.

The treatment of women in the Muslim world is part of a dangerous pattern of abuse of power by religious authorities whose interpretation of Islam has been embraced widely, the treatment of women in Saudi Arabia is the WORSE!! This is not just a curious cultural difference that women are enduring; this is an abuse of human rights.  The Human Rights Watch just did an article on the Evil of Saudi Regime. Yet,  they have Paris Hilton store right inside Mecca.


There are ways to get around it thou, the problem will be actually the Haijj itself. Most of it is not in the Quran, so they make up stuff, like praying at graves, devil is there, gotta throw stones on it. I read several articles before about how people that went there, were looking forward to it all their lives and were very disappointed because they just did not feel right about the rituals they were doing and said they want to go back and redo it that they now know what the Quran says.  I do not think they can force you to pray to the dead in the graves, because Shia do not and will not do it for Abu Bukir, I know that is one of them. lol


May Allah give us patience on these dictators and wage his anger on them so people will be allowed to practice their submission to him as he ordered...I wonder if they beat you as been reported by many of you do not go by their rules, Right side everything...ughhh

Offline Sardar Miyan

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Re: women and hajj
« Reply #4 on: January 21, 2014, 11:00:34 AM »
Dear Abrayray Please tell me where does the Grave worship is done in Saudi Arabia during Hajj?
May entire creation be filled with Peace & Joy & Love & Light

Offline AbbsRay

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Re: women and hajj
« Reply #5 on: January 22, 2014, 01:37:03 AM »
Salaam Alikum Sadar,

His grave is in Medina in Masjid Al-Nabawi. After visiting  they do the peace be upon you and do rakat of prayers. They ask him to be their intercession and ask Allah for Mercy upon their behalf. Then think that doing this, it is as better than a 1000 prayers, and all there sins are wiped out.

I do not know what you believe in or belong to any sect. But this is many Sunni's beliefs. I am only concerned about when I go, InshaAllah I am not forced to do this because I will not. I rather get kicked out than iodize the prophet.

I have many friends and family members who are all in the Sunni beliefs, that did the pilgrimage to Mecca last year and years before, so apparently it is still going on.

Please do not take my comments on this subject or any other posts me hating on different beliefs and sects of other Muslims. I am deeply saddened and disturbed how can anyone believe in anything besides Allah's words as He is even warning about this all over in the Quran.  I mean, they say La Illaha Illah La, wa Muhummed Rasool Allah all around the Kabba??? I would never do that..

Hope this answers your question. I am just concerned if their beliefs are going to be forced on other believers such as the believers of Quran as the only source that we follow.  It really made me think, if that is the case, there is no way I would be able to do my pilgrimage and going against Allah's command and adapting to others beliefs and practices. It is Indeed very sad. But than I am at hope if indeed it is a forced thing, (they have their police EVERYWHERE watching you) there is no way possible they can see who does what when there is millions there. )

Brother Joseph, I believe wrote a writing about his visit to Mecca, covering the whole Haijj subject. Brother Joseph whether you preformed the Haijj or not, maybe you can shine in if they do indeed make this mandatory for the Pilgrimage.

May Allah guide all the Muslims to the Truth and open their hearts to the Truth and understanding of His words that is in a book called the Holy Quran!  :)

Salaam

Offline AbbsRay

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Re: women and hajj
« Reply #6 on: January 22, 2014, 01:52:18 AM »
Salaam Sardar,

Here is the link to Brother Josephs writing on the Jaijj

http://quransmessage.com/pdfs/Hajj.pdf

Salaam

Offline Wakas

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Re: women and hajj
« Reply #7 on: January 22, 2014, 01:55:33 AM »
See part in red:

Quote from: source
When
occurs within the ashur(plural of shahr) well known i.e. the four inviolable/restricted months [2:197, 9:2-5]
the crescent/new moons are used as set times for it [2:189]

Guidelines
the principal requirement: the position of the shelter and of those hosting it is that nothing is associated with God i.e. monotheism [22:26, 22:31]
can take place at a shelter wherein this criteria is met [3:96, 22:26]
done for God [3:97, 2:196]
during this time there is an amnesty/truce in place if there are warring parties (self-defence is still allowed however) [9:2, 2:191]
this type of event will nurture a sense of brotherhood amongst monotheists/believers, provide opportunity to witness benefits, remember/mention/thank/magnify God, spend in the way of God and do good [2:195-198, 9:18-20, 22:25-28, 22:35]

Participants
it is open to all mankind (who are willing to abide by the laws of the land) - for whoever is able to make a way to it [3:97, 9:18, 22:27]
if you wish to go but are prevented then send whatever is easy of gift/offering (with a representative) - if unable to do this then one can redeem by way of abstinence/charity/sacrifice [2:196]


Undertaking HaJJ
for monotheists - those wishing to uphold the salat/bond and bring forth betterment [22:31, 22:35, 9:18, 9:28]
no sex/wrongdoing/quarreling - this may aid the positive atmosphere and one's spiritual experience [2:197]
bring provision [2:197]
one's state of mind should be piety/conscientiousness/forethoughtfulness/taqwa and sincere/straightforward [2:189, 2:197, 2:203, 22:32, 22:37]
can be done in 2 days but typically would be 3-10 days, and one's obligation is fulfilled after the act of animal slaughter and feeding those in need [2:200, 2:203, 22:29, 22:34]

Visitors
if you enjoyed in the visit to the HaJJ then give whatever is easy of gift/offering - if unable then abstinence 3 days during + 7 when you return = 10 complete [2:196]

Activities
one may seek bounty (i.e. worldly benefit, e.g. trade), get to know one another, go about the place, remember/mention/thank/magnify God, if doing HaJJ slaughter an animal to eat and share with the needy [2:198, 2:200, 2:203, 22:28, 22:34, 22:36]

As far as I know that Saudi Arabian rule is not from Quran.

Offline AbbsRay

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Re: women and hajj
« Reply #8 on: January 22, 2014, 02:03:33 AM »
Salaam Wakas,

I know, it is sad. Especially when they say women are exempt from in for certain reasons.

Offline Joseph Islam

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Re: women and hajj
« Reply #9 on: January 22, 2014, 08:31:39 PM »
Brother Joseph, I believe wrote a writing about his visit to Mecca, covering the whole Haijj subject. Brother Joseph whether you preformed the Haijj or not, maybe you can shine in if they do indeed make this mandatory for the Pilgrimage.
Salaam

Dear Abbsrayray

As-salam alaykum

With a view to answer your respected question, it is well appreciated amongst the majority of Muslims that visiting Madinah is not a part of the main Hajj rituals per se.

From a Quranic perspective, there is no instruction to visit this site or to pray there as part of Hajj or as a religious requirement. However, it is also not against the Quran’s guidance to visit locations around the world and this remains a choice for the individual to make. It is expected however, that such visits are not considered ‘religious’ and that one does not engage in practices which are incongruent with the teachings of the Holy Quran.

It is true that the vast majority of pilgrims do make a trip to Madinah when they are in Saudi Arabia (for Hajj or Umrah) to show respect for a Prophet of God.

Madinah is a city that houses an exquisite mosque for prayer and also the burial place of prophet Muhammad and other of his alleged companions. I have no concerns with visiting this mosque and also to pray to God whilst at the mosque. After all, all places of worship / mosques belong to God (72:18)

I also have no qualms to pray for the deceased at any gravesite. However, I never ask the dead for anything as this in my opinion, is tantamount to shirk. One can only pray 'for' the dead and not 'through' the dead [1]

However, I will confess to have broken down in tears when I think of God’s mercy and the blessings He has given us by way of such prophets that have roamed the earth.  Being in the locale where His blessed servant would have roamed only increases that emotion and love towards God and His continuous mercy. I have also felt the same sense of heightened spirituality when at other sites around the world.

I have even sensed awe when I have visited places of destruction where God has delivered His wrath. [2]

Indeed, there are individuals that take the matter further with regards their beliefs with intercession etc. However, believers do not necessarily concern themselves with what others may or may not believe in or do, in a situation like this.

Whenever I have visited Madinah and in particular the prophet’s mosque, I have noted authorities to usher individuals along and have seen them curtail any prayers made through the Prophet by informing individuals to pray to God. I acknowledge that it is not easy to control such a large, diverse and oft emotional crowd constantly.

As long as believers are aware of the practices they engage in and are clear about their intent, they can continue to concentrate on their spirituality at any such site for the sake of God.

I hope that helps, God willing
Joseph


REFERENCES

[1] Praying 'For' the Dead is Different from Praying 'Through' the Dead
http://quransmessage.com/articles/praying%20for%20and%20praying%20through%20FM3.htm
[2] Mada'in Saleh - The Quranic Ziyarah (Visit) of Petra's Sister Site
http://quransmessage.com/travelogues/ziyarah%20FM3.htm
[3] TRAVELOGUES
http://quransmessage.com/travelogues/travelogues%20FM2.htm
'During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act' 
George Orwell

Offline AbbsRay

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Re: women and hajj
« Reply #10 on: January 23, 2014, 04:45:40 AM »
WA Alyikum A Salaam Brother Joseph,

Thank You for clarifying. Yes, Indeed InshaAllah,  I will be able to go through this pilgrimage myself, and Indeed will go to Madina for the purpose you did as well and not Shirk.

May Allah Guide everyone to the true path!!

Salaam