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#81
General Discussions / God Testing Humanity: Crystal ...
Last post by relearning - January 13, 2025, 09:40:25 PMIf a book claims to be of divine origin and is intended for all of humanity, it should indeed be accessible, clear, and verifiable by every individual without the need for intermediaries, historical context, or linguistic expertise or barriers. This is especially critical if the stakes are as high as salvation or eternal consequences.
Accessibility and Clarity:
A divine message intended for all of humanity should be universally accessible and understandable, regardless of language, culture, or historical context. It should not require intermediaries, scholars, or clergy to interpret or explain it.
Self-Verification:
Every individual should be able to verify the authenticity of the message independently, like a "key and lock" mechanism. This would eliminate the need for fallible human intermediaries and ensure that the message is coherent and clear to all.
High Stakes Demand High Clarity:
If the stakes are as high as salvation or eternal consequences, the message must be crystal clear and easily verifiable. Anything less would be unjust, as it would leave people at risk of misunderstanding or being misled by fallible interpreters.
Critique of Current Religious Texts:
Current religious texts, including the Quran, Bible, and Torah, fail to meet these standards. They are deeply tied to historical and cultural contexts, require interpretation by fallible humans, and are not universally accessible or verifiable.
an honest and sincere email to God:
Subject: A Humble Request for Clarity and Accessibility in Divine Messages
Dear God,
If You exist and have sent divine messages to humanity, I humbly request that You consider the following:
Universal Accessibility:
A divine message intended for all of humanity should be accessible to every individual, regardless of language, culture, or historical context. It should not require intermediaries, scholars, or clergy to interpret or explain it.
Self-Verification:
Every person should be able to verify the authenticity of the message independently, like a "key and lock" mechanism. This would eliminate the need for fallible human intermediaries and ensure that the message is coherent and clear to all.
High Stakes Demand High Clarity:
If the stakes are as high as salvation or eternal consequences, the message must be crystal clear and easily verifiable. Anything less would be unjust, as it would leave people at risk of misunderstanding or being misled by fallible interpreters.
Current Religious Texts:
Current religious texts, such as the Quran, Bible, and Torah, fail to meet these standards. They are deeply tied to historical and cultural contexts, require interpretation by fallible humans, and are not universally accessible or verifiable.
If You truly care for all of humanity, I ask that You provide a message that meets these criteria, so that every individual can independently verify its authenticity and decide whether to follow or refuse it.
Sincerely,
a Humble human being and i know u already know
Accessibility and Clarity:
A divine message intended for all of humanity should be universally accessible and understandable, regardless of language, culture, or historical context. It should not require intermediaries, scholars, or clergy to interpret or explain it.
Self-Verification:
Every individual should be able to verify the authenticity of the message independently, like a "key and lock" mechanism. This would eliminate the need for fallible human intermediaries and ensure that the message is coherent and clear to all.
High Stakes Demand High Clarity:
If the stakes are as high as salvation or eternal consequences, the message must be crystal clear and easily verifiable. Anything less would be unjust, as it would leave people at risk of misunderstanding or being misled by fallible interpreters.
Critique of Current Religious Texts:
Current religious texts, including the Quran, Bible, and Torah, fail to meet these standards. They are deeply tied to historical and cultural contexts, require interpretation by fallible humans, and are not universally accessible or verifiable.
an honest and sincere email to God:
Subject: A Humble Request for Clarity and Accessibility in Divine Messages
Dear God,
If You exist and have sent divine messages to humanity, I humbly request that You consider the following:
Universal Accessibility:
A divine message intended for all of humanity should be accessible to every individual, regardless of language, culture, or historical context. It should not require intermediaries, scholars, or clergy to interpret or explain it.
Self-Verification:
Every person should be able to verify the authenticity of the message independently, like a "key and lock" mechanism. This would eliminate the need for fallible human intermediaries and ensure that the message is coherent and clear to all.
High Stakes Demand High Clarity:
If the stakes are as high as salvation or eternal consequences, the message must be crystal clear and easily verifiable. Anything less would be unjust, as it would leave people at risk of misunderstanding or being misled by fallible interpreters.
Current Religious Texts:
Current religious texts, such as the Quran, Bible, and Torah, fail to meet these standards. They are deeply tied to historical and cultural contexts, require interpretation by fallible humans, and are not universally accessible or verifiable.
If You truly care for all of humanity, I ask that You provide a message that meets these criteria, so that every individual can independently verify its authenticity and decide whether to follow or refuse it.
Sincerely,
a Humble human being and i know u already know
#82
Discussions / Re: Wisconsin, USA
Last post by fireheart47 - January 01, 2025, 03:03:41 PMOne of the things which I've been reminded to consider is my privilege to be able to do what I do without immediate consequences. For example, the privilege to read the Bible and the Qur'an. I also come from a place with resources, education and other advantages. If it wasn't for the struggles, I wouldn't have pursued trying to understand the Qur'an and scriptures the way I have. I feel as if good to acknowledge the constructive role of bad things to alleviate worries. Yet, it is the material advantage which allows me to do what I do. My hope is that I can flow and be part of the many.
I feel as if I should still provide my perspective when it is needed or requested, however I seek to be more conscious of the differences between people, and what role I play and how I influence. Forgive me if I misguide you. May God guide us. May God protect us from people and keep us and our loved ones safe.
I feel as if I should still provide my perspective when it is needed or requested, however I seek to be more conscious of the differences between people, and what role I play and how I influence. Forgive me if I misguide you. May God guide us. May God protect us from people and keep us and our loved ones safe.
#83
Discussions / Re: New article: The book and ...
Last post by fireheart47 - December 27, 2024, 08:45:18 AMPeace,
When I began to study the Qur'an, I was surprised by the meaning of the word Qur'an and its Hebrew cognate. For me this made total sense, because traditionally it is recited. Later, more recently, I thought about the verses, which refer to the Qur'an as a book, and this troubled me, because I asked myself, "Why would someone reciting something verbally refer to their speech as a book?".
Your inquiry and explanation of the multiple meanings of the word kitab in Arabic resolved this mystery, because it explains how the word kitab doesn't only mean book, instead also record and decree. Therefore, there would be no contradiction if understood in the original Arabic of the Qur'an.
Thank you for helping us learn more about the Qur'an and resolving doubts, which may hinder our faith in the important messages within the Qur'an.
When I began to study the Qur'an, I was surprised by the meaning of the word Qur'an and its Hebrew cognate. For me this made total sense, because traditionally it is recited. Later, more recently, I thought about the verses, which refer to the Qur'an as a book, and this troubled me, because I asked myself, "Why would someone reciting something verbally refer to their speech as a book?".
Your inquiry and explanation of the multiple meanings of the word kitab in Arabic resolved this mystery, because it explains how the word kitab doesn't only mean book, instead also record and decree. Therefore, there would be no contradiction if understood in the original Arabic of the Qur'an.
Thank you for helping us learn more about the Qur'an and resolving doubts, which may hinder our faith in the important messages within the Qur'an.
#84
Discussions / Re: New article: The book and ...
Last post by Wakas - December 24, 2024, 11:07:42 PMForgot to ask, what were you referring to when you said:
"Your discussion about the deeper meaning of kitab resolved one of my doubts of the Qur'an."
Related article:
https://mypercept.co.uk/articles/covenant-quran.html
"Your discussion about the deeper meaning of kitab resolved one of my doubts of the Qur'an."
Related article:
https://mypercept.co.uk/articles/covenant-quran.html
#85
Discussions / Re: New article: The book and ...
Last post by fireheart47 - December 23, 2024, 08:23:58 AMPerhaps I should not discuss Bible verses in this forum category. If it has any value, it should be that the moral of the story has to be extracted from the whole chapter, because certain verses alone leave room for the imagination to introduce new ideas out of context. Perhaps the Qur'an requires similar intra-Surah analysis. People's minds had longer attention span back then, it seems. Concepts are spread apart across the Surah, for example the criticisms of self-loathing and automatic denial of wisdom in Judah found in Surah an-Nisa.
#86
Discussions / Re: New article: The book and ...
Last post by fireheart47 - December 23, 2024, 07:59:23 AMQuote from: Wakas on December 23, 2024, 04:43:42 AMI haven't concluded in my understanding of 27:40. If you have a cogent understanding please share.
The verse reminds me of this article: https://www.islamicity.org/7691/understanding-kufr/
From my perspective, the Qur'an teaches how people cover up the truth (كفر), and they also deny it (كذب).
Especially in relation to the interpretation of scriptures. Just look at how people cover up and deny the sons of God (plural) in the Bible. I believe if it were not covered up or denied by believers, it would've directed our devotion to each other in servitude of God, rather than to statues and images of one person.
Although it might also cause people to feel like special, and better than others, hateful of "the sinners" (because we all are). That's why 1st Letter of John Chapter 3 discusses Cain and Abel, hate is the sin.
#87
Discussions / Re: New article: The book and ...
Last post by Wakas - December 23, 2024, 04:43:42 AMpeace,
I'm not really saying they are one and the same. I am saying they are related, i.e. not a secondary source compiled from hearsay reports.
There is variance when it comes to the understanding of 27:40 however I meant where it says "the one who had knowledge of the kitab..." was able to do XYZ in a seemingly extraordinary way. Asad considers this person to be Solomon, others do not. Some interpolate various interpretations of what happened. http://quranix.org/27#40
I haven't concluded in my understanding of 27:40. If you have a cogent understanding please share.
Re: 66:3, my understanding:
One of the wives told another and the prophet was made aware of this so when he talked about it he discussed one part of it and left a part out. Main point is, relevant to the article, is she was reprimanded for divulging a hadith of his i.e. not meant to spread it.
I'm not really saying they are one and the same. I am saying they are related, i.e. not a secondary source compiled from hearsay reports.
There is variance when it comes to the understanding of 27:40 however I meant where it says "the one who had knowledge of the kitab..." was able to do XYZ in a seemingly extraordinary way. Asad considers this person to be Solomon, others do not. Some interpolate various interpretations of what happened. http://quranix.org/27#40
I haven't concluded in my understanding of 27:40. If you have a cogent understanding please share.
Re: 66:3, my understanding:
One of the wives told another and the prophet was made aware of this so when he talked about it he discussed one part of it and left a part out. Main point is, relevant to the article, is she was reprimanded for divulging a hadith of his i.e. not meant to spread it.
#88
Discussions / Re: New article: The book and ...
Last post by fireheart47 - December 21, 2024, 09:54:26 AMQuote from: Wakas on December 21, 2024, 07:03:47 AMThe article has now been updated...
Your articles are always very informative. I found the other one about lunar calendar very insightful.
I agree with your argument in this article about kitab and hikmah, it being one and the same. Your discussion about the deeper meaning of kitab resolved one of my doubts of the Qur'an. I agree it makes sense for us to interpret it as a record or decree.
However, life experience shows me wisdom can be found outside of the scriptures. I'm sure the hadiths have some wisdom. Yet, when it pertains to religion, it makes sense to focus on the original documents and prioritize those.
I like when you mentioned the lack of intra-textual analysis. This is very descriptive of the thinking pattern, which is best to analyze the text to fullest potential.
Dogmatic thinking often causes people to fall into routine, and causes people to confuse faith in the unseen and receptivity with obedience. It can hinder the most important part of our faith, which is to treat other people well.
When I think of an example in the gospels, I think of the one Son of God and Son of Man versus the many more examples of Sons of God, Sons of Devil, and Sons of Gehenna, and many of other examples in the Hebrew Bible and other Jewish literature (ex: Sons of Prophets [bnei nevim]). Most people ignore these metaphors, because they contradict the practice of worshipping Jesus. I don't think he would've wanted that, and would've wanted us to worship God and help others. He is quoted, however, telling his disciples that he set forth an example for them to know the Father, which again is a less-frequently occurring metaphor used in the Hebrew Bible for God, which seems to have been popularized at the time of Jesus in certain Jewish communities. The apparent contradiction between Qur'an and Bible, seems to orient us towards a perspective of the gospels, which supports the historical worldview, where it makes most sense that it is not literal father nor literal son, rather a metaphor or attribute, and for all who behave that way, not just one.
My questions are:
What did you mean when you said this about 27:40? Can you help me understand this verse? To me it doesn't seem to say that, was it a mistake?
Quotenatural laws of the universe for example (see the interesting example of 27:40).
Also, can you help me understand Surah at-Tahrim 66:3? What does it mean by
Quoteshe informed [another] of it and Allah showed it to him, he made known part of it and ignored a part?
#89
Discussions / Re: New article: The book and ...
Last post by Wakas - December 21, 2024, 07:03:47 AMThe article has now been updated and discusses the meaning of kitab, hikma, ummi, and touches upon a few interesting observations and how it all fits together.
#90
Posts on Facebook / Re: The Pandemic
Last post by fireheart47 - December 20, 2024, 12:01:22 PMMay God guide us. May God protect us.
During my studies, I studied a major within the plant sciences. I took a course on genetics, which focused on human and animal genetics. Plant genetics is an important topic, because it is where the first contributions to the study of genetics occurred, and also other fields within biology.
This is important and sensitive information. Before the mechanics of genetics was understood, people used the concept of genetics to murder millions of innocent people. It goes to show how easily people can manipulate the truth. This occurred after World War 1, which created the conditions where people were not at their healthiest and sound of mind.
The simple lesson from the course, which I learned: DNA instructs the production of RNA and proteins.
The false idea that DNA affects everything is called, "genetic determinism". Some of it is controlled by societal factors (how parents treated us, how their parents treated them, generational trauma, wealth, poverty, diet).
There are many factors, which influence our being.
In other biology courses, we talked about "emergent features", which show how complicated functions arise from the simple functions. This is an important topic. DNA is near the bottom of a long list of processes and structures, which contribute to higher function. This is why there is a lot of risk in changing DNA, and RNA.
I have faith we are not doomed. I have faith God will protect us. One of my reasons is that DNA is not the main process influencing complicated processes. For example, if you studied a fish in the ocean, and I told you it happened because of the formation of the Milky Way galaxy, it wouldn't give you the relevant processes. Yet without the proper formation of the Milky Way galaxy, Earth wouldn't exist, neither us or the fish. For this reason, I believe our collective understanding of DNA does not seem to be accurate, which gives room for unexpected protection for honest mistakes.
This is one reason I am very critical of Genetic Engineering (GE). DNA is at the beginning of a complicated process tree, and changing it can have unintended consequences. Also, because changes which are made do not appear to be reversible.
In the case of crop seeds, new GE crops get bred and replace the old seed. I am unaware of any GE crops which affect our health through consumption. This could be an important research topic. It is entirely possible, a GE crop could produce an unwanted metabolite. This is something researchers are interested in. Yet, it certainly is a problem for the future genetics of the crop species. Even conventional breeding can have detrimental effects, so why is it so controversial to speak out against the manipulation of some of the most important and consequential features of life on Earth?
I have faith in God, even though I cannot provide proof. My faith gives me hope there are things, which we don't understand which will protect us. Mechanisms in our bodies which protect us against mistakes.
In one course, they talked about how mosquitos can make changes to the expression of DNA through RNA interference. They often boasted about this, because it disproved the naysayers against GE. This doesn't change the risk of changing the fundamental processes at the beginning of chains of processes we don't seem to understand.
We have many warners, and yet we do not listen. We also have many people who fight for a cause they do not know the consequences of. We have people who try to manipulate others, because they realize they can't convince others with information.
One example is how people use a creative interpretation of Genetically Modified Organism (GMO), which says traditionally bred animals and crops are also GMO. This gives the false impression, that the proposed GMO is normal and not new. For this reason, I refer to it as Genetically Engineered (GE).
There are many terrible things in this world, and it is easy to fall into a very negative mindset. One which enables us to act against God's will for peace, and contributes more to the problems. I believe in the power of prayer. I also believe in the power of people. For this reason, I feel obligated to warn you all, and to try my best to give you reassurances if you feel scared about the current moment.
However, I am fallible, elementary, and only human. May God protect us, and may God grant us peace to talk to people and treat each other as we would want to be treated. May God help us win people's hearts, and to find peace in our inability to control the world.
During my studies, I studied a major within the plant sciences. I took a course on genetics, which focused on human and animal genetics. Plant genetics is an important topic, because it is where the first contributions to the study of genetics occurred, and also other fields within biology.
This is important and sensitive information. Before the mechanics of genetics was understood, people used the concept of genetics to murder millions of innocent people. It goes to show how easily people can manipulate the truth. This occurred after World War 1, which created the conditions where people were not at their healthiest and sound of mind.
The simple lesson from the course, which I learned: DNA instructs the production of RNA and proteins.
The false idea that DNA affects everything is called, "genetic determinism". Some of it is controlled by societal factors (how parents treated us, how their parents treated them, generational trauma, wealth, poverty, diet).
There are many factors, which influence our being.
In other biology courses, we talked about "emergent features", which show how complicated functions arise from the simple functions. This is an important topic. DNA is near the bottom of a long list of processes and structures, which contribute to higher function. This is why there is a lot of risk in changing DNA, and RNA.
I have faith we are not doomed. I have faith God will protect us. One of my reasons is that DNA is not the main process influencing complicated processes. For example, if you studied a fish in the ocean, and I told you it happened because of the formation of the Milky Way galaxy, it wouldn't give you the relevant processes. Yet without the proper formation of the Milky Way galaxy, Earth wouldn't exist, neither us or the fish. For this reason, I believe our collective understanding of DNA does not seem to be accurate, which gives room for unexpected protection for honest mistakes.
This is one reason I am very critical of Genetic Engineering (GE). DNA is at the beginning of a complicated process tree, and changing it can have unintended consequences. Also, because changes which are made do not appear to be reversible.
In the case of crop seeds, new GE crops get bred and replace the old seed. I am unaware of any GE crops which affect our health through consumption. This could be an important research topic. It is entirely possible, a GE crop could produce an unwanted metabolite. This is something researchers are interested in. Yet, it certainly is a problem for the future genetics of the crop species. Even conventional breeding can have detrimental effects, so why is it so controversial to speak out against the manipulation of some of the most important and consequential features of life on Earth?
I have faith in God, even though I cannot provide proof. My faith gives me hope there are things, which we don't understand which will protect us. Mechanisms in our bodies which protect us against mistakes.
In one course, they talked about how mosquitos can make changes to the expression of DNA through RNA interference. They often boasted about this, because it disproved the naysayers against GE. This doesn't change the risk of changing the fundamental processes at the beginning of chains of processes we don't seem to understand.
We have many warners, and yet we do not listen. We also have many people who fight for a cause they do not know the consequences of. We have people who try to manipulate others, because they realize they can't convince others with information.
One example is how people use a creative interpretation of Genetically Modified Organism (GMO), which says traditionally bred animals and crops are also GMO. This gives the false impression, that the proposed GMO is normal and not new. For this reason, I refer to it as Genetically Engineered (GE).
There are many terrible things in this world, and it is easy to fall into a very negative mindset. One which enables us to act against God's will for peace, and contributes more to the problems. I believe in the power of prayer. I also believe in the power of people. For this reason, I feel obligated to warn you all, and to try my best to give you reassurances if you feel scared about the current moment.
However, I am fallible, elementary, and only human. May God protect us, and may God grant us peace to talk to people and treat each other as we would want to be treated. May God help us win people's hearts, and to find peace in our inability to control the world.