What do you take 4:17 to mean?

[deleted]

This is what I'd like your take on:
إِنَّمَا التَّوْبَةُ عَلَى اللَّهِ لِلَّذِينَ يَعْمَلُونَ السُّوءَ بِجَهَالَة

Des this mean that if someone has committed what the god has forbidden, when he'd know it to be forbidden, then he shall burn in the Fire forever?

[ilker]

salam eliiah

I think the word "jahala" in this ayah may refer to "doing something out of extreme emotions". I read about this somewhere. Usually we say "not knowingly" but that doesn't sound exactly right to me. It's more like "when you really can't help yourself, can't see the consequences, can't think straight, commit a sin, but then you immediately realize what you've done, asked for forgiveness and made tawba".

When you look at 12:33 for example, you can see that Prophet Joseph (pbuh) says that "he might not find the strength to resist them if ALLAH does not avert him from their plan."

"He said, "My Lord, prison is more to my liking than that to which they invite me. And if You do not avert from me their plan, I might incline toward them and [thus] be of the ignorant."

It's just an opinion by the way. Maybe someone will answer differently and more correctly. May ALLAH (swt) guides us to His path and forgive us if we are wrong.

[deleted]

Peace be upon you too   

I didn't know that word could be used in this manner.

[deleted]

And all the dictionaries I've seen state it means "to be unaware". And this statenent of Josephs might be a reference that if he went with them, then he'd become of the "unaware" of further commands from the god. Couldn't it?

[ilker]

salam

Like i said before, it makes sense to me but that might not be the correct answer. However when Prophet Joseph (pbuh) said "And if You do not avert from me their plan, I might incline toward them ... " he says "he might incline toward them".

It's like saying "Oh ALLAH if you don't help me, if you leave me on my own, i would incline toward them and fail the test".

Maybe there are brothers and sisters here who know deeper about the word "jahala"

May ALLAH (swt) shows us the correct way if we are in the wrong one.

[deleted]

Peace be upon you brother. Might the god be Merciful with all of us.

[Truth Seeker]

Salaam all,

It is my understanding that 'jahala' means
ignorant so basically being uninformed or uneducated in a matter

[ilker]

salam Truth Seeker

If you are "uninformed or uneducated in a matter" , how are you supposed to realize that you did wrong and make tawbah (4:17) while you do not know if the particular action you committed is right or wrong (sin or not a sin, halal or haraam) ?

Would Allah hold you responsible for something you don't know about ?

How do you punish an informed person ?

[deleted]

Right. Is there another manner to look at the overall statement "إِنَّمَا التَّوْبَةُ عَلَى اللَّهِ لِلَّذِينَ يَعْمَلُونَ السُّوءَ بِجَهَالَة" though?

Does it have to mean 'It doesn't matter if you turn to the Lord again, you can't be forgiven, and you're destined for the fire' , or could He still forgive you, even though He doesn't forgive you a deed?

[deleted]

And Ilker, I think it means when you become aware that what you commited was forbidden, you must turn to your Lord.

[ilker]

salam

then how should we translate 12:33 ? Did Prophet Joseph (pbuh) say that without ALLAH's help, he might incline toward them and be an "uneducated" or "uninformed" person ? He already knew that "zina" is haraam. How could he suddenly be "uneducated" and "commit the sin" ?

[deleted]

Peace,

Perhaps as 4:17 might indicate, his Lord wouldn't forgive him, and as such he would become unaware of further commands from his Lord?