Explanation for verse 110 in Al Maida (Prophet Jesus and creation)

[AdhamS]

Salam Alaikom,


I would like to thank Mr Joseph Islam for explaining to us the permissibly of making statues (and drawing) via the Quran.

Even some  traditional or should I say "Semi traditional" scholars and Imams have reached the same conclusion and I think the most famous example is  Imam Mohammed Abduh, the former
Grand Mufti of Egypt (d. 1905) when he stated that make statues is halal.

But I have a question which is a result of "Salafi Scarring" so to say and I need the help of my brethren here if possible.

In the verse 110 of Surat Al Maida, unfortunately Salafi "scholars" (more like copy pasters) have used certain terms in this verse to strengthen their claim that making statues is strictly forbidden unless commanded by Allah.

  [The Day] when Allah will say, "O Jesus, Son of Mary, remember My favor upon you and upon your mother when I supported you with the Pure Spirit and you spoke to the people in the cradle and in maturity; and [remember] when I taught you writing and wisdom and the Torah and the Gospel; and when you designed from clay [what was] like the form of a bird with My permission, then you breathed into it, and it became a bird with My permission; and you healed the blind and the leper with My permission; and when you brought forth the dead with My permission; and when I restrained the Children of Israel from [killing] you when you came to them with clear proofs and those who disbelieved among them said, "This is not but obvious magic."


They say that when Jesus (PBUH) made the statue it was with Allah's permission because otherwise its forbidden. I find a serious contradiction with that because it would mean healing the blind and the leper is also forbidden unless Allah gives someone permission to cure them. I want to hear your opinions on the matter and thanks a lot!

[AdhamS]

Alright, until I get a reply from my brothers and sisters , I would like to add something else  :  3: 49

"And [make him] a messenger to the Children of Israel, [who will say], 'Indeed I have come to you with a sign from your Lord in that I design for you from clay [that which is] like the form of a bird, then I breathe into it and it becomes a bird by permission of Allah . And I cure the blind and the leper, and I give life to the dead - by permission of Allah . And I inform you of what you eat and what you store in your houses. Indeed in that is a sign for you, if you are believers."

https://quran.com/3/49


Can we say that "with my permission" in the verse mentioned in the previous post also means " by my command" ?  In 3 :49  Prophet Jesus is saying he came to the Jews with a sign from Allah,  doesnt that mean Allah probably commanded Jesus to do all these things (AND by carrying out the orders Allah would make the miracles happen?). Just like when Allah ordered prophet Moses to hit the water with his staff or to throw it ?

So basically Allah is saying he ordered Jesus to make the statue of a bird (or something similar) and Jesus didnt just do it voluntarily?

Would like to hear your opinions..... especially Mr. Joseph Islam   

[samson]

Hi,

My thoughts are that Jesus was given the certain powers by God, such the power to heal, to read peoples minds, some knowledge of the future, etc. Jesus had free will to use those powers as he wished however he only used them in accordance with Gods will. However I also believe he knew his mission was to bring signs to the peoples by showing them miracles hence he did those miracles when he chose to do so. So I think Jesus did those miracles voluntarily. If you read the Bible it seems he did them voluntarily.

[AdhamS]

Alright, but what is so special about making a statue out of mud that requires God to say "with my permission" specifically for it ? I mean anyone could possibly do that.

[munir rana]

Salam

If Jesus did all miracles voluntarily then why did he prayed to God for `the table spread from the heaven' instead of doing it voluntarily also?

5:112 When the disciples said, `O Isa, son of Maryam! Can your Lord send down to us a table spread from the heaven?' He said, `Fear Allah, if you are belivers.'
5:113 They said, `We wish to eat from it and satisfy our hearts and to know certainly you have spoken the truth to us and be among the witnesses.'
5:114 Said Isa, son of Maryam, `O Allah, our Lord, send down to us a table spread from the heaven that it may be a festival for us- for the first and last of of us and a sign from You. And provide us and You are best of providers.

[AdhamS]

Exactly, I dont think he was able to do miracles and his position isnt much different from Prophet Moses. Does Moses have the ability to split seas and bring out water whenever he hit the ground with his staff? I dont think so......

Thats why I believe "with my permission" simply means "by my order" or "by my command", that Jesus didnt do any of this voluntarily but rather Allah commanded him.

[miracle114]

Salaam
Is it not true that given the magnitude, grandeur and ultimate supremacy and greatness of Allah the almighty and the highly complex system he has put in place that he doesn't need to talk to anyone to give them permission or let any deeds go amiss his will. I believe this Is a figure of speech or Arabic interpretation to mean "all this and every other wonderous miracle " from start to finish and then through eternity is ALL by the will of Allah the almighty.  As far as I know but not utterly sure there is a verse that says Allah then almighty will never directly address his creation or there is one verse that says he spoke directly to Moses.
But whatever the case I believe if someone is making a statue , clay bird, etc to remember Allah the almighty creation and praise Allah alone and it drives you closer to God then yes you could argue it is not wrong but who would do such a thing is the question.

Salaam and jzk

[AdhamS]

From what I understood from you, Miracle114, is that its debatable who could or could not make statues?

I quote " .......you could argue it is not wrong but who would do such a thing is the question."


Doesn't that go against the whole permissibly  of  statues (at least) if that is the case?

[samson]

Salam

If Jesus did all miracles voluntarily then why did he prayed to God for `the table spread from the heaven' instead of doing it voluntarily also?

5:112 When the disciples said, `O Isa, son of Maryam! Can your Lord send down to us a table spread from the heaven?' He said, `Fear Allah, if you are belivers.'
5:113 They said, `We wish to eat from it and satisfy our hearts and to know certainly you have spoken the truth to us and be among the witnesses.'
5:114 Said Isa, son of Maryam, `O Allah, our Lord, send down to us a table spread from the heaven that it may be a festival for us- for the first and last of of us and a sign from You. And provide us and You are best of providers.

In this case the request was for God to send down a table from heaven. Hence Jesus prayed to God for this miracle. This was a miracle asked of God not of Jesus.

[samson]

Exactly, I dont think he was able to do miracles and his position isnt much different from Prophet Moses. Does Moses have the ability to split seas and bring out water whenever he hit the ground with his staff? I dont think so......

Thats why I believe "with my permission" simply means "by my order" or "by my command", that Jesus didnt do any of this voluntarily but rather Allah commanded him.

I disagree.

I think "with my permission" means exactly that. Jesus was given certain powers. Whatever power he used he sought Gods permission before he used it. If you read about King Solomon he was given power over the winds and over Jinn and the ability to talk to animals amongst other things. God gave King Solomon permission to use those powers however King Solomon wished to do so. King Solomon rightly used those powers to glorify God and probably did other things to satisfy his own desires hence create some of the buildings. For example he wanted the throne of that queen. It was his wish to get that throne and not something commanded by God.

[samson]

  As far as I know but not utterly sure there is a verse that says Allah then almighty will never directly address his creation or there is one verse that says he spoke directly to Moses.

There is a verse in the Quran where God addresses the Children of Israel when he took a covenant from them and also Job. These are mentioned in the Bible as well. Also Gibreel is a creation and God commands him to do things.

[samson]

From what I understood from you, Miracle114, is that its debatable who could or could not make statues?

I quote " .......you could argue it is not wrong but who would do such a thing is the question."


Doesn't that go against the whole permissibly  of  statues (at least) if that is the case?

What's the big issue to do with creating statues?

[munir rana]

I find no contradiction. Jesus (PBUH) made the statue with Allah's permission to perform certain miracles. This permission he didn't want but was given (like Moses). Other permission he asked to perform another miracle to satisfy certain people. Nowhere it is said that making statue is forbidden. Otherwise verse 34:13 would be difficult to understand.

034.013
They made for him what he willed: synagogues and statues, basins like wells and boilers built into the ground. Give thanks, O House of David! Few of My bondmen are thankful.

[AdhamS]

I find no contradiction. Jesus (PBUH) made the statue with Allah's permission to perform certain miracles. This permission he didn't want but was given (like Moses). Other permission he asked to perform another miracle to satisfy certain people. Nowhere it is said that making statue is forbidden. Otherwise verse 34:13 would be difficult to understand.

034.013
They made for him what he willed: synagogues and statues, basins like wells and boilers built into the ground. Give thanks, O House of David! Few of My bondmen are thankful.

I apologize for the late reply but thanks a lot!