Messages

46

General Discussions / Re: In the divine system every individual keeps only what he needs!!

« on: January 21, 2014, 11:42:13 PM »

Salaam.

The point is, when we are going to organize people to solve a certain problem, or to achieve something, like governing a province, how can we ensure that the members of our organization are God-fearing or not?

No doubt, the tag of being Muslims will already be there, howsoever. What is the litmus test to know that a group of Muslims are not like their usual disorganized lot, with all the outward signs of an organized entity?

Regards,
A. Ismail Sait.

47

General Discussions / Re: In the divine system every individual keeps only what he needs!!

« on: January 21, 2014, 07:56:02 PM »

Salaam.

All 7 items in (9:60), other than 2 and 9, are creations of circumstances, and mere extensions of 2 and 9.

By 9:60, only the implementation of the extended 2 and 9, (2 and 9 of 9:60, being, basically, part of the Core Commandments in 4:36) is meant, along with the organized implementation of the basic 2 and 9 themselves. 

The value of the Core Commandments, are basic, and abiding, irrespective of the kind of government.

Only the burden of 4th and 8th of 4:36, which are the same as the 2nd and 9th of 9:60, may get comparatively, and, quantitatively diminished by prosperity, and organized effort.

Of course, prosperity and organized effort aid us in fulfilling our responsibilities.

But organized effort creates more problems than it solves, if the members of the organization are not God-fearing.

However, the core commandments demand the individual's total dedication, to the utmost extent of his/her ability, irrespective of circumstances, and, as I have already remarked, Umar, or no Umar.

Regards,
A. Ismail Sait.
   

48

General Discussions / Re: qur'an codes, and bible codes?

« on: January 21, 2014, 01:47:59 PM »

Salaam.

In case a number patter exists, it need not necessarily be universally applicable everywhere in the Qur'an.

In nature, there are certainly, general rules, as well as exceptions. More over, the purported discovery of number pattern, if it has any significance, then, we cannot jump into any hasty conclusions based on it, no less because any discovery need not be the be all and end all of it. A new discovery may topple it.

Nature is full of seeming contradictions.

See how a pigeon is so vastly different from the rest of the birds. While drinking water, it does not raise its head in order to gulp down the water in her beak with the aid of earth's gravity.

More over, in the breeding season, both male and female pigeons produce a milk like liquid inside their bosoms, which they pump into the belly of their fledgeling, through their beaks.

None of the fish, living as they are, in water, especially in the appallingly deep and vast waters of the ocean, suckle their young. But one species of whale does.

After all, our knowledge is always only that much which God Almighty allows us to know.

And the key to get God's special aid for us know more, is to strive with all our might to become real Al Muhsineen. (12:22), (28:14).

This word, according to Abdulla Yusuf Ali means:

"Those who do right, those who do good. Both ideas are implied. In following right conduct, you are necessarily doing good to yourself and to others."

Regards,
A. Ismail Sait.

49

General Discussions / Re: urgently seeking advice regarding neutering/spaying pets

« on: January 20, 2014, 09:30:00 PM »

Salaam.

I said:

(1)  "Avoiding all indulgences is a Core Value, considering that it is mentioned among the Cardinal do’s and don’ts in (23:1-11)."

It pertains to 23:3. The root LGV. G stands for the 19th letter of the Arabic Alphabet.

It is mostly translated as vain talk, or vain actions.

The Definite Article in it shows that all kinds of lagv are meant.

(2)  Under the circumstances that led Nura to probe the question of neutering of cats, it is seen that only two options are available. Either neuter and make its life miserable, or risk augmenting the mass killing of cats. Inspite of it, we only talk about "enjoining our lives".

More over, when, consequent to spaying/neutering/castrating, the the animal invariably loses its charm and liveliness, and then goes on to become a chronic patient, what enjoyment is then left?

If, in Abbsrayray's considered view, pets are not a distraction, then, I have no objection, as far as they are not subjected to unnatural procedures, and mass killings.

Regards,
A. Ismail Sait.

50

General Discussions / Re: In the divine system every individual keeps only what he needs!!

« on: January 20, 2014, 01:39:11 PM »

Salaam.

I never talked about "stages", or, rather, ascending stages in the matter of divine commandments.

But 'circumstances'. Yes.

Unless and until that circumstance obtains, and, unless and until purity of intentions, honesty, and diligence, and great wisdom and caution prevails, and circumstances, inevitably call for a political move, only Dystopia will result, we will lose our focus, and lose ourselves wholly, in hankering after power.

Regards,
A. Ismail Sait.

51

General Discussions / Re: urgently seeking advice regarding neutering/spaying pets

« on: January 20, 2014, 01:03:54 PM »

Salaam.

Keeping pets, in a sense, is an indulgence, a vexing distraction, and an unnecessary annoyance. 

Avoiding all indulgences is a Core Value, considering that it is mentioned among the Cardinal do’s and don’ts in (23:1-11).

Regarding  mutating of body parts, refer (4:119).

Respects, and Regards.

Humbly,
A. Ismail Sait.

52

General Discussions / Re: In the divine system every individual keeps only what he needs!!

« on: January 20, 2014, 02:09:46 AM »

Salaam.

If individuals are not able to reach out to all the needy, small organizations can be formed in order to do the same.

I am talking about a society consisting of a significant sprinkling of morally and spiritually distilled and refined individuals.

Which society could have been better than that under the Prophet, to carry out welfare works honestly, and with the utmost excellence?

(9:60) only shows that the time was ripe, the circumstances apt, and the people trustworthy enough to carry out the required welfare practices, without embarrassing the givers, and without resorting to corrupt practices.

Even today 9:60 would apply, wherever such an atmosphere obtains.

Howsoever, the individuals' responsibilities, like those in (4:36), are abiding, permanent, and belong to the Core Values - the Spiritual Legacy of All Mankind.

Regards,
A. Ismail Sait.

53

General Discussions / Re: In the divine system every individual keeps only what he needs!!

« on: January 19, 2014, 10:39:03 PM »

Salaam.

I meant, concerted, organized action is necessary in case individuals cannot, under probable circumstances, reach out to every Miskeen. Full quote:

"Of the 9 items enumerated in 4:36, regarding whom every individual must strive to extend his/her help, at the same time prioritizing each item in the order of it's importance, Al Masaakeen (the poor) is the most general, and tends to be the most widespread, and so individuals may not be able to exhaustively find, identify, and reach all of Al Masaakeen, howsoever affluent they may be. Concerted, organized effort, especially by a government is necessary to fulfill the responsibility of fulfilling Al Masaakeen's legitimate needs."

You said: Unfortunately, you are still not willing to admit that governmental actions are required for all the categories mentioned in 9:60.

I humbly state, that we need not necessarily form a government in order to fulfill our responsibilities towards the categories in 9:60.

In case there is a government, it should not dictate as to how much wealth anybody should possess, as long as, it gets what is enough to fulfill it's responsibilities.

Regards,
A. Ismail Sait.

54

General Discussions / Re: In the divine system every individual keeps only what he needs!!

« on: January 19, 2014, 07:51:30 PM »

Salaam.

Of (9:60),

item number 1 Al fuqaraa', see also (2:273).

item number 2 Al Masaakeen, see also (18:79).

The meaning of item number 3 is highly controversial.

The ubiquitous, haunting question is: Why should any government think of financing the expenses towards the welfare of parents, whose children are well-to-do?

Regards,
A. Ismail Sait.

55

General Discussions / Re: Monasticsm in Quran, Advanced the Protestant Reformation?

« on: January 19, 2014, 04:13:29 AM »

Salaam.

It has been my humble opinion that Al Qur'an does not condemn Monasticism altogether. (57:27)

Of course, it condemns the waywardness of a section of the Monks.

In (5:82), it has actually praised the (well meaning people, among) Priests and Monks, who were far from being proud or arrogant.

Regards,
A. Ismail Sait.

56

General Discussions / Re: In the divine system every individual keeps only what he needs!!

« on: January 19, 2014, 03:49:09 AM »

Salaam.

Thanks for pointing out that the item concerning travelers also is common to both 4:36, and 9:60.

Really, the item needs an organized set up in order to be apprised of and to reach timely aid to a traveler stranded in a remote jungle, or a mountain ghat, or involved in an accident.

Your 4th paragraph is the most crucial one.

You said:

"I did not state that individual responsibility as required by 4:36 is abrogated by 9:60.  They are still valid in the limited sense when an Islamic society progresses from one level to another level until a full Islamic system is established."

Did you mean, that a stage will be reached when the responsibilities enumerated in 4:36, will no longer be a crucial test for the individual?

Regards,
A. Ismail Sait.

57

General Discussions / Re: In the divine system every individual keeps only what he needs!!

« on: January 18, 2014, 11:03:15 PM »

Salaam.

Of the 9 items enumerated in 4:36, regarding whom every individual must strive to extend his/her help, at the same time prioritizing each item in the order of it's importance, Al Masaakeen (the poor) is the most general, and tends to be the most widespread, and so individuals may not be able to exhaustively find, identify, and reach all of Al Masaakeen, howsoever affluent they may be. Concerted, organized effort, especially by a government is necessary to fulfill the responsibility of fulfilling Al Masaakeen's legitimate needs.

Therefore, that (of Al Masaakeen) is the only item, from the above (4:36)'s group of 9, included in the subsequent group of 8 entirely new items (except Al Masaakeen) enumerated in (9:60) for the sake of organized - may be governmental - effort.

That does not mean that the individual's responsibility as far as Al Masaakeen are concerned, are thus abrogated.

The individuals' responsibilities, like those in (4:36), are abiding, permanent, and belong to the Core Values - the Spiritual Legacy of All Mankind.

Regards,
A. Ismail Sait.

58

General Discussions / Re: In the divine system every individual keeps only what he needs!!

« on: January 18, 2014, 07:02:50 PM »

Salaam.

Our focus is not towards "completely eradicating poverty".

Our focus is to be good to parents, kindred, orphans, the destitute, the indigents, neighbors who are near, other neighbors, the person beside us (in a vehicle, in the workplace, etc.), our subordinates, etc. in that order. [this is a rough estimate based on (4:36)], to the best of our ability.

At the same time, we are to always be reminding each other regarding these responsibilities. And these responsibilities entail patience and stability. (90:17, 103:3). These two Verses draw the picture of our Prophet's society, for us to emulate.

When a society follows God's Commandments, it is gifted by the Almighty God, with a good government. Any good government does not claim to be shouldering the individual's responsibilities.

'Umar may have been a good administrator. Beyond that, we cannot praise him, because he, fortunately, administered a people who had already been subjected to the everlasting spell (if I may say so) of Al Qur'an. Who had already been at peace with themselves, and with everyone else. Who would keep God's Commandments, Umar, or no Umar!

Of course, 'Umar may b entitled to some credit.

But the society which he administered, should get more credit.

The individuals- the members of that society - who were focused on the Spiritual Legacy of All Mankind, should get even greater credit.

Salat, that molded, and cultivated such exemplary personalities, must get the most credit.

Finally, and ultimately, all credit belongs to God, who never asked us to focus on securing Power in order to create a State!

Regards,
A. Ismail Sait.

59

General Discussions / Re: In the divine system every individual keeps only what he needs!!

« on: January 18, 2014, 04:26:12 AM »

Salaam.

Our duties towards parents, kindred, orphans, destitute, indigents, neighbors, stranded travelers, subordinates, etc, remain fresh and well entrenched, governments notwithstanding.

These belong to the Universal Commandments of God - the Spiritual Legacy of All Mankind.

No temporal government can substitute the individual in this in any way whatsoever.

Of course, when a society, as a whole, leans towards goodness, these individual duties can get a bit easier.

However, invariably, in any case, every individual is to be fully tested in every way regarding his divinely ordained individual responsibilities. No government can take over any of these responsibilities from the individual.

Rights of ownership are not unislamic.

Regards,
A. Ismail Sait.

60

General Discussions / Re: In the divine system every individual keeps only what he needs!!

« on: January 18, 2014, 01:43:24 AM »

Salaam.

There was neither any room to listen to pleas, nor any need whatsoever for a test. They were warned enough by Lot.

Before coming to Lot, they conveyed the decision to Abraham (God's choicest blessings be on all His prophets), that a torment is coming to the people of Lot, and that it is not to be turned back. See: (11:76).

As for my remark that the uttermost heinous attitude of Lot's people at that juncture only served to silence Lot against pleading for them, it is, clearly, my personal observation, which, in fact, spontaneously flowed from my pen, and has no "motive(s)" behind it. It will be clear to any Qur'anist (2:121) that it is only the personal observation of the writer.

Regards,
A. Ismail Sait.