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Offline Mohammed

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Divorce is twice, not three times
« on: July 05, 2017, 10:36:36 PM »
Dear all,
Assalaamu 'alaykum.

Most of the people (including the Illustration of Joseph Islam) telling that divorce is three times and/but if the third divorce is initiated then it is irreversible (i.e. two reversible and one irreversible).
So in such case the couple have to repeat the Iddat period twice to end the marriage bond, but in Qur'an the term used for the iddat period is 'Ajalahunna' (2:231, 232 65:2) which is in singular form, i.e. no repeating of iddat period happens according to Qur'an.

I would like to share my understanding about divorce from the Qur'an.

If any quarrel/indifference arise among couples the first step is admonition(if husband fears nushuz from wife-4:34) or mutual reconciliation (if wife fears nushuz from husband-4:128). After this, if quarrel persists then the husband can decide for abstention of 4 months (4:34-wahjuroohunna fil ma’laji’hi, 2:226) and by this time it is better to reconcile (2:226). If even by the end of the 4 month period they did not return to normal relations then that is the first decision of separation or first divorce [2: 226,227, 4:34-wadhriboohunna; I interpret the term ‘wadhriboohunna’in 4:34 refers the first decision of separation. And if needed/ fear any dissension, two just persons from both sides can help for reconciliation/ can witness the first divorce. (here the witnesses are not necessary if things are normal, 4:35).

So I interpret the second part of the verse 4:34 is a mentioning/ a brief description of the divorce process (i.e. till the first decision of separation).
The divorced(first divorce) women have to wait for 3 monthly courses (for those whose periods are regular. And for other women including pregnant s refer-65:4) and during this waiting period also they should try mutual reconciliation (2:228). And so when they reach the end of the waiting period (Iddat period) and reconciliation did not happen, then that is the second and final decision of separation or confirmation of separation i.e., now the individual cannot continue marital life unless the woman marries another spouse. This decision should be witnessed by two just persons from both of their relations/community. (whether they separating or reuniting, here the witnesses are necessary, 65:2). So within the waiting period (iddat period) they have to take the decision, if they want to live together as before.

So for a normal couple the divorce will be as follows (if reconciliation fails in all stages):-
Admonition/mutual reconciliation--> 4 month abstention--> first decision of separation (first divorce) and it will be with or without the presence of two just people from both family (4:35)--> Iddat period of 3 monthly courses--> 2nd/final decision of separation/confirmation of separation (2nd divorce) and it should be only with the presence of two just persons from both family) i.e. avg 7 months for the whole process. i.e. by the iddat period itself the final decision is made, and there is no repeating of Iddat period.
It will be more easy to understand if you are replacing the the word 'divorce' with the term 'decision of separation'.
"The divorce (decision of separation) is two times/twice, so, holding/clinging/refraining (the marriage) with kindness/generosity or divorcing/releasing with goodness". (2:229)

More clearly, the first divorce or first decision of separation is by the end of 4 month abstention period or before the starting of Iddat period and the 2nd divorce or confirmation of separation or 2nd and final decision of separation is by the end of the Iddat period.
And Allah knows the best.

I kindly request you all to share your thoughts.
Regards,
-my current understanding. Verify for yourself -17:36.
O you who believe! Enter perfectly in islam/ Surrender yourselves wholly unto God [2:208], [3:19-20,85 2:132]

Offline Joseph Islam

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Re: Divorce is twice, not three times
« Reply #1 on: July 08, 2017, 06:35:02 PM »
Dear Mohammed

Wa alaikum assalam

When the Quran says 'Al Talaqu marrathani’ in verse 2:229, it literally means ‘The divorce is twice’. In other words, it can be initiated twice which has the allowance for retention in a reasonable manner or release. The verse clarifies this. (Then, either retain/keep (her) in an acceptable / reasonable manner or release (her) with good treatment / kindness)

This means that two divorces are revocable.

However, if a third divorce is initiated then it is final.

ISLAMIC DIVORCE ACCORDING TO THE QURAN
http://quransmessage.com/charts%20and%20illustrations/divorce/divorce%20FM2.htm

I believe I have shared no different in the illustration above.

Regards,
Joseph
'During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act' 
George Orwell

Offline Mohammed

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Re: Divorce is twice, not three times
« Reply #2 on: July 09, 2017, 06:22:38 PM »
Salaam brother,

I am trying my best to to share the concept of Islamic divorce which I understood from the Qur'an.

The usage of the term 'Wal muthwallaqaathu'(Divorced women) (2:228), denotes that the first divorce can be happened even before the Iddat period starts i.e., by the 4 month abstention period itself (only when reunion did not happen) she became a divorced woman (first divorce) and now she is in Iddat period. So from the term 'Al thwalaqu marrathani', one thwalaq is happened, now only one remains and which will happen by the end of Iddat period (if reunion did not happen). In other words, the woman in Iddat period will always be a divorced woman (first divorce) and by the completion of the Iddat period, the marriage became invalid (If reconciliation fails). So there is no point of repeating the Iddat period.
"You, you the prophet, if you divorced* the women, so divorce them to their term, and count/calculate the term..."(65:1), "So if they reached (completed) their term/time, so hold/grasp them with kindness/generosity or separate from them with kindness/generosity and call a witness (two owners) of justice/equality from you, and keep up/take care of the testimony/certification to Allah, that is being preached/advised/warned with it who was believing with (in) Allah, and the Day the Last/Resurrection Day; and..." (65:2)
Here we can observe no any mentioning of repeating of the Iddat period.

* Many translators changed it as "when you divorce women" but the term 'Thwallaqthu' actually is in past tense.

Regards,
-my current understanding. Verify for yourself -17:36.
O you who believe! Enter perfectly in islam/ Surrender yourselves wholly unto God [2:208], [3:19-20,85 2:132]

Offline Mohammed

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Re: Divorce is twice, not three times
« Reply #3 on: July 11, 2017, 02:42:55 AM »
Dear All
Assalaamu 'alaikum.

I am really sorry that I took your time and I am sorry for the wrong Illustration which I gave because of my limited knowledge, And I am thankful to you for giving the circumstance to analyse the verse more deeply.
The change in my explanation is this, the Iddat period will repeat twice.

So for a normal couple the divorce will be as follows (when reconciliation fails in all stages):
Admonition/mutual reconciliation--> 4 month abstention--> Initiation of first divorce (if needed/ fear any dissention, two just persons from both family can help for reconciliation, 4:35)--> completion of Iddat period --> Initiation of 2nd divorce --> completion of 2nd Iddat period (whether they seperating or reuniting, here the witnesses are necessary, 65:2). So by the completion of 2nd Iddat period itself, the final divorce will happen. So there is no point of initiating a 'third divorce' (which is not Qur'anic). In other words, the marriage will become invalid if reunion did not happen by the end of the 2nd Iddat period.
and it will be avg 10 months, for the whole process.
-my current understanding. Verify for yourself -17:36.
O you who believe! Enter perfectly in islam/ Surrender yourselves wholly unto God [2:208], [3:19-20,85 2:132]

Offline Mohammed

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Re: Divorce is twice, not three times
« Reply #4 on: July 11, 2017, 07:19:46 PM »
Still I am not getting the concept of initiating a 'third divorce' (In the Illustration of Joseph Islam) to become the marital bond invalid.
According to Qur'an if the couple want to live together as before then they have to take the decision within the 2nd Iddat period, otherwise by the end of 2nd Iddat period itself the marriage will become invalid. Nowhere it is mentioned initiation of a 3rd divorce to end the marriage bond.

"You, you the prophet, if you divorced the women, so divorce them to their term, and count/calculate the term..."(65:1), "So if they reached (completed) their term/time, so hold/grasp them with kindness/generosity or separate from them with kindness/generosity..." (65:2)
-my current understanding. Verify for yourself -17:36.
O you who believe! Enter perfectly in islam/ Surrender yourselves wholly unto God [2:208], [3:19-20,85 2:132]

Offline Truth Seeker

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Re: Divorce is twice, not three times
« Reply #5 on: July 25, 2019, 07:41:21 AM »
Salaam,

Further to your comments:

"So for a normal couple the divorce will be as follows (when reconciliation fails in all stages):
Admonition/mutual reconciliation--> 4 month abstention--> Initiation of first divorce (if needed/ fear any dissention, two just persons from both family can help for reconciliation, 4:35)--> completion of Iddat period --> Initiation of 2nd divorce --> completion of 2nd Iddat period (whether they seperating or reuniting, here the witnesses are necessary, 65:2). So by the completion of 2nd Iddat period itself, the final divorce will happen. So there is no point of initiating a 'third divorce' (which is not Qur'anic). In other words, the marriage will become invalid if reunion did not happen by the end of the 2nd Iddat period.
and it will be avg 10 months, for the whole process.
"

1. If after the first divorce and subsequent first iddat, the divorce has not been revoked then the couple can go
   their separate ways. There doesn't need to be a second divorce initiated because the couple are now legally
   divorced.


2. If they want to reconcile some time after the iddat period, they need to remarry with a new nikah.

3. The third divorce you are talking about still needs an iddat period even though it is irrevocable.