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Offline Star

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The God Paradox
« on: November 19, 2015, 07:01:15 AM »
It's this old question again. I think people have asked it before, but I haven't fully understood most people's answers.

Can God create a rock that is too big for Him to lift?

But nothing is too big for Him to lift. But if He can't create something that is too big for Him to lift, then it seems like He is not all-powerful.

I understand that this is a nonsensical question that has been debated to death, but I had to ask.

I thought that if God wants something, He just has to say "Be," and it is.

So can he do ridiculous things like create other Gods? Of course He would never do it even if he could, but could he?

Offline Star

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Re: The God Paradox
« Reply #1 on: November 19, 2015, 08:26:07 AM »
I know this question is irrational and ridiculous, but I really need an answer.

I've been having evil thoughts lately, wondering if God is REALLY all-powerful and stuff like that. It bothers me a lot. I've tried praying, but nothing happened.

Any suggestions would be appreciated. I've been on this forum a lot lately, trying to get rid of all my doubts. That's actually why I registered this account in the first place.

I wish some miraculous realization would come and get rid of all these bad thoughts.

A lot of the questions I've been asking lately probably seem irrational and nonsensical, but I'm pretty much  unable to function like a normal girl whenever I get doubts like this. I have to keep looking for answers to stay sane.

Offline Star

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Re: The God Paradox
« Reply #2 on: November 19, 2015, 09:42:03 AM »
OK. I'm really desperate now.

I want someone to prove to me these three things: 1) The Quran is from God. 2) If the Quran is from God, then He is not lying in the Quran. 3) God is capable of everything.

These are some things I have to say on the topic:

--Just because the Quran says things that no human could ever have known, that does not mean it is from God. It simply means that it is not from a human.

--If the Quran was indeed written by God, then we cannot be sure that He is telling the truth in it.

--The Quran says God is capable of anything, but human logic proves that He is not capable of doing irrational, impossible things. Thus, he is not capable of doing everything. Thus, the Quran MUST be lying.

--And if something is not rationally possible, then God should be able to somehow make it rationally possible, or else He is not capable of everything.

If someone can refute every claim I made above, and I really hope they can, then all my faith in God will be restored.

I want to believe in God, I really do. But my rationality is telling me otherwise.

PLEASE HELP.

I really hope that everything I said above is false, but if it cannot be proven that it is false, then there is a possibility that God does not exist and everything I've ever done is for nothing.

WHERE is Brother Joseph???!!!


Offline Lobotomize94

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Re: The God Paradox
« Reply #3 on: November 19, 2015, 02:48:53 PM »
Mia, this claim is absolutely ridiculous and it should not give you any trouble.

"Can God create a rock and even he cannot lift". God is Omnipotent, he is all powerful, he can do ALL things. But what is a "thing". A thing is something possible. If something is impossible it is not a 'thing'. So we deduce: God can do all things means God can do all things that are possible to do.

So can God create a rock that he cannot lift? No, because it is impossible. Being omnipotent or all powerful does not mean you can do what is impossible. Can God make a square circle? Can God kill himself? All of these things are impossible. Omnipotence doesn’t mean the ability to do things that are logically impossible.

I REALLY REALLY RECOMEND YOU READ OR WATCH THIS PODCAST IF THIS IS GIVING YOU TROUBLE:

http://www.reasonablefaith.org/defenders-2-podcast/transcript/s3-17#ixzz3rux320bf

Offline Hamzeh

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Re: The God Paradox
« Reply #4 on: November 19, 2015, 03:11:06 PM »
Dear Mia666

Asalamu Alykum

I am not to sure how I would be able to answer what your questioning, or if there even any answers to questions like this. I am not going to attempt to answer your questions directly, but what I would like to share with you something that God Willing will make you feel not overwhelmed with what your thinking is that, you should start thinking separately about who God is and what you can perceive in your thoughts.

We live in a dimension that is simply created. You cannot think outside the dimensions your in. This is your limit to what you can imagine.

God created the Good. He created the laws that surround the Good. He created a law that will take place if the Good is not used. So in absence of Good there is something you might want to call the Bad or the evil. He created your emotions and how you cry, get sad, get happy etc and what causes these emotions. He created matter, the big things the small things, the way we perceive the world. The cause and effect of things is created by God. He created rationality and logic. You cannot think that He is also abiding by the same laws He created.  Or if He even has one.

He only speaks to us in matters we can only relate to. A medium or a tool as how we can understand Him only by what He tells us or by the Signs He shows us. In order to believe in Him and follow what He has given us by way of Scripture, conscious, inspiration, etc. 

Far better is He and more greater is He than we can think. He tells us to just understand this. That we can never perceive Him, imagine Him or even know what possibly even takes place with Him.

The senses we have, the touching, the tasting, the visions and images He created within us, the ability to learn and comprehend and understand languages and writings. It is only a ONE who is far more Magnificent and Greater than anything who can do all this. Who gave us the realization to understand something is big or small. He created the Sun, the Planets the Stars and a universe thats everly expanding. To show us His Ultimate Powers and controlling factors of something we know its impossible to coordinate by any other than the Creator who is Omniscient.

We cannot restrict God to a language, or a size or a certain limit He can achieve. He created even the "thought of thinking" this way for us. If He is the Creator He can simply do whatever He wills. We have no understanding of all this. He simply tells us that He just says "Be and it is." We would never understand how because we don't have the ability to think in a different dimension or like Him. We should just know that thats the truth. There is signs in the skies and in ourselves that give us certainty of our Creator. The simple creation of life and the creation of death is all part of His divine limitless wisdom.

God is not even restricted to a name (17:110). But He tells us to call Him by any name that is Good. He created the sound, and created the ability to let man learn language and understand the names of things and how to communicate with each other. That is for our own sake for understanding and how we relate to things. All part of His law that He created. He created the trees, that give paper that can be written on etc. He gave/created us rules and instructions to live by. You just have to know He is the Creator, the Designer, the One and Only.

Don't let whatever it is to keep you thinking about relating God to our human dimensional existence. And seek God's refuge and his protection.

I hope this helps, May God be with you

Offline Hamzeh

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Re: The God Paradox
« Reply #5 on: November 19, 2015, 03:31:19 PM »
Salam Mia

A couple more things to add.

God tells us He created the male and the female. He is certainly not worn out from the creation He made. That He is One, the Absolute, that He begets not, Nor is He Begotten. And nothing is comparable to him. So in other words what Gods nature is unknown to us. Neither can we vision it.  Even what He tells us about Himself or what He says He is not, We can never know what that is. I believe that we just need to not mix Gods attributes to our own that He created, and He only conveys to us messages that we can relate to in our realm through mediums(Angels, words, messengers, etc) we can understand.

 :)

Offline Star

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Re: The God Paradox
« Reply #6 on: November 20, 2015, 11:19:30 AM »
The thing is, is Allah bound by the rules of logic? If He is, then how could He have created them? This is an important question I've been seeking the answer to for a while.

So Allah can do anything that is a "thing." Thus, he is bound by logic. But He is not supposed to be bound by anything.

Pleas help.

Mia

Offline Hamzeh

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Re: The God Paradox
« Reply #7 on: November 20, 2015, 03:48:44 PM »
Salamu alykum  Mia

In my humble opinion Allah created the human being. Allah tells us that after Adam has been fashioned as a homosapian and then breathes into him a divine energy from Allah (keep in mind that we dont know to much about this energy which in arabic is Ruh. Allah tells us he only tells us a little about it so dont expect to understand everything) it suggests that he Adam has become conscious and have a sense of reasoning and able to make choices and not basically a creation like the Angels.It may be thought about it this way. That Allah is the All-Wise. This is his attribute. The All Powerful Mighty. That He given us something of an attribute from Himself. Allah knows best.

I dont think anyone can claim to say Allah is bound to any rule. However Allah tells us in the Quran that he has written or decreed for Himself mercy on the Day of Judgement. But thats what He has done for Himself.

I dont think I want to comment on more than that as I dont know the rules or nature of God. And I also dont think we can start guessing much on things that is not clear from the Quran. As many people would have to many opinions which would lead to just imaginations without warrant.

Even about the "thing" your speaking about i personally dont think this is something that we can comment on to much. Like I said before we can only vision things in our relm. We are humans that are created which is proven to our very own selves by actually not being on earth before each one of us was born. We are helpless and powerless and no authority. We have no power to bring down the rain. We have no power to shine the sun. We have no power to keep living. We are dependable on our Sustainer.

We as humans can only relate to this existence and not whats in another relm. It would never ever make sense to us as long as we are here.

The nature of God is unknown to us. Other than what He informs us about Himself in the Quran

Salam

Offline IjazAhmad

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Re: The God Paradox
« Reply #8 on: November 20, 2015, 11:05:55 PM »
Allah can indeed do everything, however, he will obviously not do that which doesn't befit his MAJESTY - for an example having children or create parents for himself.


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Re: The God Paradox
« Reply #9 on: November 21, 2015, 12:15:40 PM »
Brother Hamzeh: I think I've figured this out. A rock that God cannot lift is not a thing. Thus, there is no question of whether or not God can make it, because the concept of "it" is not there, because this "rock" is nothing. It is simply not a thing.

God says he can make anything, but such a rock is NOT a thing. There shouldn't even be any concept of such a rock.

Thanks for your input :)

Offline Hamzeh

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Re: The God Paradox
« Reply #10 on: November 21, 2015, 02:46:38 PM »
Peace Mia

your welcome :)

I think we should not mix our visual concepts of what ever it may be in our dimensions/real and time to what is God's divine presence. Those boundaries are unknown to us, all we know is He is eternal all knowing and uncreated and the most powerful.

kind regards,

Offline Hamzeh

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Re: The God Paradox
« Reply #11 on: November 21, 2015, 02:51:57 PM »
Dear Mia

I just watched a nice video that I thought would interest you. Its a long video, but it showed me how other people come to common terms and feel comfort from answers they receive from the Quran.

 :)


scroll down a bit and look for the title:
The Purpose of Life - Professor Jeffrey Lang
http://quransmessage.com/articles/media%20FM.htm

Offline Joseph Islam

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Re: The God Paradox
« Reply #12 on: November 21, 2015, 08:12:21 PM »
It's this old question again. I think people have asked it before, but I haven't fully understood most people's answers.

Can God create a rock that is too big for Him to lift?

But nothing is too big for Him to lift. But if He can't create something that is too big for Him to lift, then it seems like He is not all-powerful.

I understand that this is a nonsensical question that has been debated to death, but I had to ask.

I thought that if God wants something, He just has to say "Be," and it is.

So can he do ridiculous things like create other Gods? Of course He would never do it even if he could, but could he?

Dear 'mia666',

As-salamu alaykum

Amongst the many attributes God shares, it is absolutely clear that He is Most Holy, Perfect, Most Just and Truthful.

Would we then expect God to make an argument or creation which is false within the logical parameters that He has created befitting His own essence?

For example, in a system where particular mathematical laws apply, would we expect God to make 10+10=30? If He did, He would create a false argument within that matrix which would not make Him a True God. Yes, He can of course temporarily suspend those laws and create that argument, but to expect that within the parameters He has set would be a fundamentally false expectation from a 'True' God.

Another thought outside the realms of time and space; would we expect God to make another false God that is equal to Him in power and authority? Arguably, the same reasoning deduction would apply.

This is not a paradox. With respect, you are suggesting that God creates an argument which is fundamentally false which by definition of a 'True' God is false and nonsensical in essence in the first place.

Furthermore, (and with utmost respect this is not directed at you) it is only a fallible creation which can only think within the realms and boundaries of the 'time and space continuum' and be restricted by its laws, could ever articulate such an irrational argument.

The argument 'God can do anything', must foremost take into account His very essence of the epitome of truth, logic and rationality.

I hope this helps, God willing
Joseph

'During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act' 
George Orwell

Offline Star

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Re: The God Paradox
« Reply #13 on: November 22, 2015, 09:44:29 AM »
Brother Joseph: That is definitely a new perspective, and it makes more sense than anything people told me about this issue before.

My question was certainly irrational, but I had to clear it up.

Thank you for your answers :)