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Offline zigazigha

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Kaaba being taken from the polytheists
« on: October 09, 2017, 12:09:16 AM »
Salam everyone  ;D

I was reading this article http://quransmessage.com/articles/makkah%20bakkah%20FM3.htm and there is one thing I can't understand.
According to the article, the Kaaba was never built by Abraham (PBUH) but it was originally a polytheistic temple.
To me this explanation makes sense, but does this mean that at one point Muhammad (PBUH) stole the polytheists' place of worship and made it his own?
This is the only thing that I can't accept. Reading the Qur'an I realise that we should always respect other faiths, even if we don't believe in them. When God says in 3:20, 5:92, 13:40, 16:82, 42:48 "if they turn away your only duty is to deliver the message" it's making clear that there has to be no compulsion in Islam. So why would Muhammad (PBUH) ever decide to take their place of worship? Couldn't he build another one? How was this respectful of their religion (the polytheistic religion)?

I hope you will help me!

Offline Hamzeh

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Re: Kaaba being taken from the polytheists
« Reply #1 on: October 09, 2017, 05:32:56 AM »
Asalamu 3alykum Zigazigha

In my humble opinion Mecca was a desired place of worship by the Quraysh which where all mainly polytheists.

That was the holy place they inherited. There seems to be a connection to that remote place of worship by even the prophet Muhammad(pbuh). This is shown by verse 2:144.

Prophet Muhammad did turn towards a different direction at first which possibly indicates that because there was idol worshipping that the proper direction was that of the people of the Book or even becausr possibly he was ordered to follow the ways of Abraham.

But later on we notice that God himself is the One who choose Masjid Al Haram to be the appointed place for worship to Him and that it is befitting for only the believers.

We also need to bare im mind that it was the polytheists who were the transgressors and they were throwing the prophet and the believers out of the land for simply convenying the message peacefully.

It was then by God's will that He has switched positions in power and established for the belivers their religion and made them the inheritors and the rulers in the land.

Of course lots of narratives are inbetween but just to make the point short. But by noway the prophet stole such a place. Who did it belong to initially anyways?

Salam

Offline Wakas

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Re: Kaaba being taken from the polytheists
« Reply #2 on: October 12, 2017, 05:19:05 AM »
peace all,

Can you provide evidence from Quran for these statements:

Quote from: zigazigha
So why would Muhammad (PBUH) ever decide to take their place of worship?

##


In my humble opinion Mecca was a desired place of worship by the Quraysh which where all mainly polytheists.

Quote
That was the holy place they inherited.

Quote
There seems to be a connection to that remote place of worship by even the prophet Muhammad(pbuh). This is shown by verse 2:144.


Quote
Prophet Muhammad did turn towards a different direction at first which possibly indicates that because there was idol worshipping that the proper direction was that of the people of the Book or even becausr possibly he was ordered to follow the ways of Abraham.

Your view contradicts 2:144 which explicitly states "indeed those who have been given the writ/decree know that it (al masjid al haram) is the truth from their Lord".

Quote
But later on we notice that God himself is the One who choose Masjid Al Haram to be the appointed place for worship to Him and that it is befitting for only the believers.


Offline Hamzeh

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Re: Kaaba being taken from the polytheists
« Reply #3 on: October 12, 2017, 07:24:09 AM »
Asalamu 3alykum

Dear brother Wakas

I'm sure you are trying to say something here, if you have a better position on this matter please share it. I would love to hear it, as I'm sure you know that I've taken this view from the articles brother Joseph has written, at least to what I understood from them so don't attribute any faults of mine to his articles. I find they seem to be consistent.

As far as your requests I will try to provide the evidence Insha'Allah, of course I am not conclusive on these kinds of topics as there is some differences of opinions and they all seem to have their merit.

I provided the verse number 2:144 to your 4th quote as evidence. When Allah(swt) tells prophet Muhammad(pbuh) " We shall turn you to a Qibla(direction) that comforts you/pleases you/is dear to you" Does that not give a hint of a place that he was always around.

From verse 8:34 there seems to be evidence that the polytheists have some authority in stopping believers from entering the Masjid Al-Haram. Seems like believers are trying to enter as the right was already given to pray in that direction in verse 2:144. God made it clear that they are not its guardians. This I suppose can be interpreted in different ways, but to stay consistent I would be inclined to interpret this as they are not the only ones who have the right to this place. This belongs to those who live in the area, and those who are righteous should be its guardians as the land should be in the hands of those who are believers and good.

The next verse 8:35 clearly states that the prayers that was being performed at the House(Masjid Al-Haram) was nothing but whistling and clapping of hands. This of course was not from those who were believers.

8:34 But why should Allah not punish them while they obstruct [people] from al-Masjid al- Haram and they were not [fit to be] its guardians? Its [true] guardians are not but the righteous, but most of them do not know.
8:35 And their prayer at the House was not except whistling and handclapping. So taste the punishment for what you disbelieved.


I would take back what i said about being the place they inherited, as I would say this is unknown. I can only assume the only other opinion would be that Bekka and Mekka are the same localities and that it was built by prophet Abraham(pbuh). Which after reading the article below one would think otherwise.

regarding what you said
Quote
Your view contradicts 2:144 which explicitly states "indeed those who have been given the writ/decree know that it (al masjid al haram) is the truth from their Lord".

This is not necessarily a contradiction. If understood that those who believe from the people who were given the Scripture/writ really understood that this is also a place of direction that God has instituted for the new believers. That not only their Qibla is acceptable but also that of Masjid Al-Haram.

Don't most of the people who were given the scripture not accept Masjid Al-Haram to be a direction of prayer authorized by God?

I'm having a hard time answering or replying because I do not understand what your views are?

Did not a party of the believers seem to take another direction for their Qibla and were questioned for it according to verse 2:142? If so why would they take that direction? The next verses answer as to why God has allowed it, but verse 2:144 clearly authorizes a different directly to be the Qibla and it is that of which is pleasing to Prophet Muhammad(pbuh).

I do have to admit that Verse 2:149 and what you mentioned "Your view contradicts 2:144 which explicitly states "indeed those who have been given the writ/decree know that it (al masjid al haram) is the truth from their Lord" does seem to be a valid point in that Masjid Al-Haram was always a place of worship by former people(if that is what your getting at).

However, it could possibly be a well known place to the People of the Book or a place that was dedicated to God at one point in time but still seems to be a different place to that of Bekka.

God knows best.

Please let me know your thoughts

Salam


PROPHET ABRAHAM'S (pbuh) ORIGINAL SANCTUARY - AT MAKKAH (MECCA) OR BAKKAH (BACA)?
http://quransmessage.com/articles/makkah%20bakkah%20FM3.htm

Offline zigazigha

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Re: Kaaba being taken from the polytheists
« Reply #4 on: October 13, 2017, 03:30:01 AM »
peace all,

Can you provide evidence from Quran for these statements:

Quote from: zigazigha
So why would Muhammad (PBUH) ever decide to take their place of worship?


I don't have evidence from the Qur'an because it's not necessary to my question. I'm not saying "Without a doubt, Muhammad took their place of worship". My question is based on the conclusion the article came to. My question is, IF the Kaaba was originally a polytheistic temple, as the article states, then why would Muhammad take it?