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Offline Sstikstof

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About pirated software and movies
« on: October 13, 2016, 05:16:09 PM »
Is using pirated software & watching pirated movies is tantamount to sin? Is it great sin or minor?
“And no example do they bring to you but We bring to you the truth and the BEST TAFSEER (EXEGESIS).” 25:33

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Offline Duster

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Re: About pirated software and movies
« Reply #1 on: October 13, 2016, 11:15:43 PM »
Shalom / peace...


1. If you are watching dodgy movies or using bad software (not ethical) than you will only be making things worse. Sin upon sin.>>>>>>>>>>>>??

2. If you are using a legitimate software for your needs or watching a meaningful piece of movie ... then why are you not purchasing it? People's livelihoods depend on these massive industries.... so in my view you are cheating them . could even be classed as theft ...... Major or minor sin ... well - I'll leave that to others to contribute if they agree with me ...............

Just my view ....

Offline Amira

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Re: About pirated software and movies
« Reply #2 on: October 14, 2016, 05:30:44 AM »
In most countries it's illegal and can incur legal penalties. Which means it's a sin.
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Offline Sstikstof

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Re: About pirated software and movies
« Reply #3 on: October 14, 2016, 01:25:07 PM »
Please answer these question in general sense,
1. Is it a sin to share a movie u bought with ur friends?
2. Is it a sin to photocopy a book for ur own benefit?
3. Is it a sin to just copy a thing when original is still available to the owner, which u are defining as theft?
4. Can you express suitable verse from quran about this issue?
5. Isnt it tantamount to sin when u download a material and sell it to market and profit from it? What would u call this act? Isnt this pure immoral act?
6. Does it change the owner of material for which copyright exist principally?
7. Did u copy homework of other class that doesnt belong to you or u didnt pay for it?
8. Is driving a car without license a sin?
9. Is it a sin to copy article from this forum?
As for livelihood, every software owner were paid before taking over the software by company. This is the primary rule of spreading software from its founder. Company is also have good benefits now a days. So ultimately rightful owner got paid in first session.
“And no example do they bring to you but We bring to you the truth and the BEST TAFSEER (EXEGESIS).” 25:33

The best commentary of the Qur’an is the Qur’an itself!

Offline Hamzeh

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Re: About pirated software and movies
« Reply #4 on: October 14, 2016, 03:33:35 PM »
Asalamu Alykum

Although I think these question are more applicable to law and the agreements behind each situation I'll try to answer them to my best of knowledge and humble opinion in the general sense

1. Is it a sin to share a movie u bought with ur friends?

If its a hard copy movie, then you must give that same hard copy movie that was purchased. If its a software that you paid for and downloaded, you must lend them your computer or where ever it was downloaded.
Thats in considering that the movie has stated there is no copy rights.

2. Is it a sin to photocopy a book for ur own benefit?

If there is no copy rights then you probably cannot photocopy the whole book. If you photocopy bits and pieces I suppose you must say where it came from. But if you are using it for studying or something similar and then trashing them that may be different. If your going to photocopy the book and sell it then that would be stealing someone else's information in that book when you only had permission to buy one copy. You may possibly sell your copy that would be considered buying/selling or business.

3. Is it a sin to just copy a thing when original is still available to the owner, which u are defining as theft?

That depends on the agreement of buying that original. If it states no copying then you cannot. Can someone copy money just because they have the originals?

4. Can you express suitable verse from quran about this issue?

Well the Quran many places asks us to fulfill our agreements and to be upright.

2:177(part) ...to fulfil the contracts which ye have made...
23:8 And who are shepherds of their pledge and their covenant,
17:34 Come not near the wealth of the orphan save with that which is better till he come to strength; and keep the covenant. Lo! of the covenant it will be asked.


5. Isnt it tantamount to sin when u download a material and sell it to market and profit from it? What would u call this act? Isnt this pure immoral act?

If you download a material that has there mark on it and it states you cannot resell it, then I assume its there property. I am not to sure what the laws of the internet exactly are but it really depends if its free or not. If the material is free and you can sell it to make a profit then that again would be arguably business/trade.

6. Does it change the owner of material for which copyright exist principally?

The material or information would not change. But the hardcopy or downloaded copy would be rightfully owned by who ever bought it. That means only what he/she actually bought would be rightfully theirs.

7. Did u copy homework of other class that doesnt belong to you or u didnt pay for it?

Well if it had a copy right protection on it then it would of been not right. If there was no copy right protection then you may copy it.

8. Is driving a car without license a sin?

This questions seems to be a part of law. One must realize that citizens are obligated to follow the law. If one is living in a country then arguably one has accepted the law of the land and has taken allegiance.
There is a suggestion in the Quran that Prophet Joseph had abided by the kings laws 12:76.

9. Is it a sin to copy article from this forum?

Brother Joseph has generously and respectively allowed people to share his works on certain conditions. May Allah(swt) reward him tremendously for his efforts Insha'Allah.

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It has been presented in a form which I hope, God willing, should remain easy to follow by a wide readership. I shall continue to retain complete ownership of such content on this site.

You may freely copy, download (each article has a downloadable PDF) and distribute the articles provided they are in a complete form (not edited) and the following source information is provided:

Joseph A Islam  www.quransmessage.com

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[1]

As for livelihood, every software owner were paid before taking over the software by company. This is the primary rule of spreading software from its founder. Company is also have good benefits now a days. So ultimately rightful owner got paid in first session.

There is times where a company may buy all the rights and then they become owners of that material and they may put copyrights I assume.

Those are my thoughts

Peace


[1] Copyrights and Credits
http://quransmessage.com/articles/copyright%20credits%20FM2.htm

Offline Hassan A

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Re: About pirated software and movies
« Reply #5 on: October 14, 2016, 03:40:58 PM »
Salaam Sstikstof,

I would like to answer some of the question you raised, hopefully the answers address your concerns:

Quote
1. Is it a sin to share a movie u bought with ur friends?

I don't see why that would be considered a sin. If you purchased the movies, then that, now, makes you the rightful owner of that copy of the movie and can, hence, do with it as you please (except when, otherwise, prohibited by the producers of said movies).

Quote
2. Is it a sin to photocopy a book for ur own benefit?

That would depend on if the author(s) of said book strictly forbid the reproduction of it.

Quote
5. Isnt it tantamount to sin when u download a material and sell it to market and profit from it? What would u call this act? Isnt this pure immoral act?

That depends....is the material you are selling already available to the public free of cost? If so, then I don't know if it would be a sin, but I wouldn't consider it a good business model.
But if said material is something that you yourself purchased and are not violating any license agreement, then I believe you can resell it; I don't see how that would be a sin.

Quote
8. Is driving a car without license a sin?

That would depend on the law of the state / country you live in.

Quote
9. Is it a sin to copy article from this forum?

Depends on whether the author(s) of said article / answers explicitly prohibit doing so (when asked).

Peace.

Offline Hassan A

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Re: About pirated software and movies
« Reply #6 on: October 14, 2016, 03:49:29 PM »
Apparently I posted my previous reply at the same exact time as Hamzeh. Had I known of his reply earlier, I would have not posted mine (seeing as how we both gave similar responses to some of Sstikstof's questions). So apologies for the similarities in our replies.

Offline Sstikstof

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Re: About pirated software and movies
« Reply #7 on: October 15, 2016, 12:51:57 AM »
Thanks for the reply. I would like to add little more questions regarding situation here.

First, In my country piracy law doesn't exist. Secondly, as for video or audio materials, it can be copied easily and no license is included except some magical agreements of boundaries of showing the movies in public. As a matter of fact that, if you buy the movie & you can share it with friends (no matter how many), in general islamic sense except law, that doesn't go in sin. As for verse 2:177, I only download pirated movies for only myself. I dont even share to outsiders. Isnt the verse 2:177 belonged to them who actually initiate piracy for the purpose of spreading as I personally didn't buy the movies or make any promise at the time of buying? In software, companies say, you have to buy license in order to use the software. In that case, I don't even buy the software or make any promise of agreements at the time of buying, i only download them. Again promise responsibilities go to the host who cracks the software and spread. In these cases, am I myself doing the sin when I dont even resell these or spread these? Some say, owners don't get paid  his amount for my usage. Every movies at the time of releasing earn their profits in double when the movies are running on box office (please be notified that no piracy can be done during box office period) & every software owners got paid their amount by companies in first stage in order to business with the software, as well as companies profit double. So, am i as individual the responsible enough for payment issue?
“And no example do they bring to you but We bring to you the truth and the BEST TAFSEER (EXEGESIS).” 25:33

The best commentary of the Qur’an is the Qur’an itself!

Offline Nura

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Re: About pirated software and movies
« Reply #8 on: October 15, 2016, 01:15:57 AM »
Salam Sstokstof

I have answered a previous question regarding copyright laws. Maybe this will help you:
http://quransmessage.com/forum/index.php?topic=1908.msg9454#msg9454

If your country's piracy  law is more relaxed, then legally you are not doing anything wrong that can be punished by the law enforcers of your country. But, if there is a copyright or intellectual property right sought by and granted to makers of the books, movies, songs, softwares, etc,  then you are stealing.

When you download a software, you make a permanent, new copy of the material. This falls under copyright infringemnet, you need permission from the creators to do this, that's why we need 'cracked' copies of softwares like 'eviews' because simply downloading a copy will require a product licence number to run it. This is an anti-theft measure taken by the makers.

Movies have copyright for a longer time than you think. Ut is not till the movie is being screened in theators. Downloading movies is illegal whenever you do it, if you are not paying.

It doesn't matter what the law of the land is because the creators of these artistic creations have declared  their wish that their permission has to be sought before any/multiple copies of their created art is/are made. The creators have full right for this. But if anyone knowingly does not follow this wish of the creators, then they are depriving the creators of these things, from their legal right to control access to their own creation and also not to mention monetary losses they incur as a result of this. If, I am not mistaken, you are talking about countries, where downloading torrents is not illegal yet ( by this I mean that downloading torrents will not land you in jail in these countries) .

If you still have more questions, please ask
Not all those who wander are lost - J.R.R. Tolkien

Offline ilker

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Re: About pirated software and movies
« Reply #9 on: October 15, 2016, 07:45:44 AM »
assalamu alaikum brothers and sisters

This topic has been bothering me for a long time. I asked similar questions before (sister Nura posted the link above). But still my heart feels dissatisfied. Because sometimes I have to use those pirated software somehow. Professors at university don't seem to care about these copyrights at all. Mostly they give us "pdf" documents of books (not available for free) to study. They give projects, homeworks from them and even they ask from them in quizzes / exams. Sometimes we have to use pirated software like "photoshop", "ms office" and such. Mostly we (students at university) don't have another choice because we need to do very specific calculations, projects and things using "certain" softwares for our thesis.

There are also tons of websites streaming new movies/tv series before they're out on the market to purchase. Most people watch them just because they are available online.

I'm really really confused about this.

"O you who believe! do not devour your property among yourselves falsely, except that it be trading by your mutual consent; and do not kill your people; surely Allah is Merciful to you." (4:29)

" And do not swallow up your property among yourselves by false means, neither seek to gain access thereby to the judges, so that you may swallow up a part of the property of men wrongfully while you know." (2:188)

Offline Nura

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Re: About pirated software and movies
« Reply #10 on: October 15, 2016, 11:51:49 AM »
Salam brother Ilker

I understand your dilemma. And you are correct to feel uncomfortable because professors do not care about these. Sometimes as students, in the countries where these are no big deal, students have no other options but to resort to these illegal activities. When you are forced to do something illegal, even when your heart is not into it, inshallah God is merciful and understanding. But, when these things are done when one can afford to download legally just to avoid paying, then this becomes doubtful as God warns us to not steal intentionally. You, are right brother, downloading softwares illegally and photocopying copyrighted material without permission does not  fall under ' trading by your mutual consent' and such activities are modern examples of ' swallowing up other people's property by false means'. The producer's/ creator's/seller's consent is missing in such a transaction.

Streaming and watching movies and tv shows online is still not illegal yet. Once it becomes illegal to do these, the same principle of avoiding such illegal activities will apply brother.
 
Brothers and sisters, all we are asked to do in Islam, is try and avoid committing sins intentionally  as much as possible. For circumstances that are out of our control, God is merciful and we seek His mercy, that is all we can do. We are asked by God, not to make our lives unduly difficult.
Not all those who wander are lost - J.R.R. Tolkien

Offline Sstikstof

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Re: About pirated software and movies
« Reply #11 on: October 19, 2016, 06:52:47 PM »
assalamu alaikum brothers and sisters

This topic has been bothering me for a long time. I asked similar questions before (sister Nura posted the link above). But still my heart feels dissatisfied. Because sometimes I have to use those pirated software somehow. Professors at university don't seem to care about these copyrights at all. Mostly they give us "pdf" documents of books (not available for free) to study. They give projects, homeworks from them and even they ask from them in quizzes / exams. Sometimes we have to use pirated software like "photoshop", "ms office" and such. Mostly we (students at university) don't have another choice because we need to do very specific calculations, projects and things using "certain" softwares for our thesis.

There are also tons of websites streaming new movies/tv series before they're out on the market to purchase. Most people watch them just because they are available online.

I'm really really confused about this.

"O you who believe! do not devour your property among yourselves falsely, except that it be trading by your mutual consent; and do not kill your people; surely Allah is Merciful to you." (4:29)

" And do not swallow up your property among yourselves by false means, neither seek to gain access thereby to the judges, so that you may swallow up a part of the property of men wrongfully while you know." (2:188)


Please be notified that Microsoft or Adobe does know about copyright and allowed that in outside of USA as well as 3rd world. Sometimes some companies allow copyright in order to be popular in public. This news is classified directly. So don't worry about those products. In this case a good question can be asked. Why some softwares can be cracked and why some can not? I hope both billion dolar companies know how to secure access better than any.

A question remains in queue, if a product is not available in my country, then can I download them through torrent?
“And no example do they bring to you but We bring to you the truth and the BEST TAFSEER (EXEGESIS).” 25:33

The best commentary of the Qur’an is the Qur’an itself!

Offline Nura

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Re: About pirated software and movies
« Reply #12 on: October 19, 2016, 07:17:53 PM »
Salam

Torrent is a medium. What you are downloading using torrents is of concern. Using torrents is not illegal, but using them to download copyrighted material is illegal. I have said this before also, that if your country does not have a copyright infringement law, the police and judiciary in your country can't and won't punish you. But, at the end of the day, even if you are going ahead and downloading movies and books in these countries, you are depriving the creators their due and disrespecting their wishes when they do not want you to make copies of their creations without their permission.

No, you cannot download anything without paying the creators their due, it doesn't matter whether it is available in your country or not. You have to try your best to buy these legally. Avoid doing anything that can harm fellow humans and deprive them of their due money, how would we feel if someone denies to pay us for our work? We have to put ourselves in their shoes. To be honest, most of the time we do these things to avoid paying, not because there is no other way of acquiring the product legally. Please assess your situation honestly and then decide, only you know your situation. Whatever you decide to do, keep in mind that one day you have to justify your actions to God.
Not all those who wander are lost - J.R.R. Tolkien