Purpose of creation

[miracle114]

Salaam all
I have come across a couple (at least ) verses where Allah the almighty says he has not created us without purpose or without reason.  Does anyone know what the reason could be?

Is it plausible that this a second chance for all of jinn and mankind to atone for rebellion against GOD?

Are all jinn and mankind the souls of those previously in Janna that then rebelled against God?

Peace and regards

[Hamzeh]

Asalamu 3alykum

Dear Miracle114

You have kindly asked

I have come across a couple (at least ) verses where Allah the almighty says he has not created us without purpose or without reason.  Does anyone know what the reason could be?

Notwithstanding that there are many verses that may shed light on the question asked by yourself, I would like to share one that came to mind and a short article by brother Joseph below[1].

21.16-18 And We did not create the Heaven and the Earth and what is between them for mere play / sport. If We intended that We take a pastime, We could surely have taken it from the things nearest to Us, if We would do (such a thing)!  Nay! We cast the truth  against the falsehood, so that it breaks its head, and lo! falsehood does perish! and woe to you for which you ascribe!"

You asked

Is it plausible that this a second chance for all of jinn and mankind to atone for rebellion against GOD?

I'm not to sure where this concept of Jinns and Mankind rebelling against God in a previous life came from? I do not believe this is a concept supported by the Quran. Also even if one was to imagine or assume such a concept, one may ask the same question regarding the purpose of their first creation?

You asked

Are all jinn and mankind the souls of those previously in Janna that then rebelled against God?

I'm assuming your asking this question from the view/opinion that Adam was created in Janna(Paradise) and then sent to this Earth? There is another opinion to this please see the article below[2].

I do not recall any mention in the Quran of Mankind or Jinns living in a previous life and rebelled and then given a second chance here on Earth or that this life is a second chance for something that has happened previously.

There is however verse 7:172 which seems to indicate that before we were created into Humans we were made to testify against our own selves and were clearly aware that the Lord is our Creator.

Please also see an interesting post by brother Joseph related to your question below[3].

Insha'Allah that helps

Salam

[1] A PURPOSE TO CREATION - THE POWER OF TRUTH
http://quransmessage.com/articles/creation%20purpose%20FM3.htm

[2] ADAM (pbuh) AND JANNAH - AN EARTHLY ABODE OR PARADISE?
http://quransmessage.com/articles/adam%20and%20jannah%20FM3.htm

[3] First life in the Heavens,Second life in Earth
http://quransmessage.com/forum/index.php?topic=116

[good logic]

Peace miracle 114.

Qoran says:
2:28
How can you disbelieve in God when you were dead and He gave you life, then He puts you to death, then He brings you back to life, then to Him you ultimately return?
كَيفَ تَكفُرونَ بِاللَّهِ وَكُنتُم أَموٰتًا فَأَحيٰكُم ثُمَّ يُميتُكُم ثُمَّ يُحييكُم ثُمَّ إِلَيهِ تُرجَعونَ

The key word here is ” Amwattan/dead” This means we were dead before GOD created us as humans. It is very important to watch the words GOD uses in Qoran. GOD does not err or make mistakes with the choice of His words!!!
Hence we were “Amwatan/dead” can only mean we were alive before that.
Unless someone will say "Amwattan" means we were nothing?
It is not possible to be “Amwatan” if we were not alive before that?
This verse,in my opinion, gives two life cycles and a third one to come.
Of course the next questions will be:
Why did we become “Amwatan”/dead? What did we exist as?
GOD bless you.
Peace.

[miracle114]

Salaam brother Hamzeh
I thank you I have not had time to read everything in your reply but a question came to mind quickly because you asked
"if one was to imagine or assume such a concept, one may ask the same question regarding the purpose of their first creation? "

My question is more along the lines of why were humans created in their earthly form and then sent to earth to he trailed and tested? If Adam disobeyed Allah the almighty why is everyone else being put through the earthly trial ?
Is the purpose of earthly existence simply to test all souls ?

Jzk

[Hamzeh]

Asalamu 3alykum

Dear brother Good logic

I agree with your comments and I think it can relate to the posts that I shared by brother Joseph mainly the 3rd one in my last post.   

You said

Why did we become “Amwatan”/dead? What did we exist as?

God knows best. Verse 7:172 does seem to suggest that we were not in a human form when we have testified and witnessed our Lord. So we were possibly at that point created in our spiritual form and then put to death and then created again in a human form and then put to death and then to God we will all return.

God knows best.


Dear Miracle114

You asked

My question is more along the lines of why were humans created in their earthly form and then sent to earth to he trailed and tested? If Adam disobeyed Allah the almighty why is everyone else being put through the earthly trial ?
Is the purpose of earthly existence simply to test all souls ?

Insha'Allah after you finish reading the posts let us know if the questions still remain. 

Salam

[samson]

God knows best. Verse 7:172 does seem to suggest that we were not in a human form when we have testified and witnessed our Lord. So we were possibly at that point created in our spiritual form and then put to death and then created again in a human form and then put to death and then to God we will all return.

I find it puzzling that so many Muslims including Joseph interpret verse 7:172 to mean that we were alive and testified. If you read the context of the verse then it's simply saying that the idolaters cannot use the excuse that they are idolaters because there forefathers were idolaters. God is simply saying that at the time when God brought forth a generation of people from the children of Adam that God made them testify that there is only one God. That's the only clear AND useful meaning we can derive from that verse.

Also Adam was created from mud and shaped. There is no mention of humans before or after him that were made to testify and there's no mention of it in the Bible either.

[samson]

This verse,in my opinion, gives two life cycles and a third one to come.

Does the Quran not say that we have 2 deaths and 2 lives?

[Hamzeh]

Peace Samson

you said

If you read the context of the verse then it's simply saying that the idolaters cannot use the excuse that they are idolaters because there forefathers were idolaters.

First of all what you are mentioning is not in verse 7:172 it is verse 7:173 which is an addition to the fact that God will not accept that said excuse (fathers were idolaters) along with the matter that they did not remember they had testified and witness that God is their Lord.

7:172 And [mention] when your Lord took from the children of Adam - from their loins - their descendants and made them testify of themselves, [saying to them], "Am I not your Lord?" They said, "Yes, we have testified." [This] - lest you should say on the day of Resurrection, "Indeed, we were of this unaware."

We are in fact not aware of this oath we took. If it not be that this verse was recalled / mentioned to us through the Quran, this would possibly be a plausible excuse.  "Indeed, we were of this unaware". But the fact that God is saying "lest you should say".

you said

God is simply saying that at the time when God brought forth a generation of people from the children of Adam that God made them testify that there is only one God. That's the only clear AND useful meaning we can derive from that verse.

First of all is not a generation of people always from the Children of Adam? It just does not make sense how you explained it. Children of Adam are mostly if not always referred to Mankind.

Also I would have to kindly and respectively say that this verse is not simply just saying that. I would have to admit that it also is not a verse that can easily be interpolated and also has many opinions and at the end God knows best.

I am not going to attempt to translate the words in this verse as I am having a hard time understanding the first part "With akhatha Rabbuka min Banee Adama min thuhoorihim thurriyyatahum"

But the fact that the children of Adam all of them in my humble opinion testified to this and they cannot say OF THIS OATH(3aan Hatha) they were unaware because God is saying that here is the reminder that each one took.

This opinion can also be supported by possibly verse 4:1 and 33:72

33:72 Indeed, we offered the Trust to the heavens and the earth and the mountains, and they declined to bear it and feared it; but man [undertook to] bear it. Indeed, he was unjust and ignorant.

God knows best

Also Adam was created from mud and shaped. There is no mention of humans before or after him that were made to testify and there's no mention of it in the Bible either.

Just so we are on the same page, no one from what I know is saying verse 7:172 is referring to a time when we were humans before Adam. This could of been a spiritual oath before humanity came to Earth, or possibly before a Soul is created into a Human. No one is stating that humans lived before this. After all after this life the souls will not possibly be humans, they will be a creation we do not know.

A reference to the hereafter

56.035
‘Lo” We have created them a (New Creation)”
(Inna (Indeed we/ Lo) Inshanahunna (We have produced them) Inshaa (Into a creation))

I did once give a interpolation on verse 7:172.

In my humble opinion, verse 7:172 is giving us human beings today after reading the Quran the reminder of an oath that was taken by arguably all human souls before they entered this world. Now that God has reminded us through this revelation the Holy Quran the oath that was taken, we shall have no excuse to say we did not remember. As the Quran is now reminding us.

Or another interpolation would be that 'here is the oath that you took with God that you dont remember, "Am I not your Lord? They said: Yea, verily we testify" So here it is now reminded to you the oath in this Quran so that on the Day of Resurrection you do not say and give an excuse of this oath we were unaware.'

Verse 7:173 seems to suggest that incase you try to blame your fathers(ones following falsehood) for your destruction as you have been warned before you came to this world and after with this Quran.



This is my humble opinion. God knows best.

May God guide us even more Insha'Allah

Salam

At the end God knows best.


Salam

[good logic]

Peace samson.
You say ,quote:
Does the Quran not say that we have 2 deaths and 2 lives?

Yes indeed Qoran  does say "Amattana(past) and "Ahyaitana(past) i.e you gave us two deaths and two lives in the past two life cycles ,then Qoran continues: "Faitarafana bidhunubina" (now in this new resurrection/judgement) we acknowledge our sins/mistakes... Qoran was taking you forward to that day of reckoning.
This should consolidate my view of 2 life cycles(past) plus one to come(future).
GOD bless you.
Peace.

[samson]

First of all is not a generation of people always from the Children of Adam? It just does not make sense how you explained it. Children of Adam are mostly if not always referred to Mankind.

The key words in the verse are "when your Lord took from the children of Adam - from their loins - their descendants". If the verse said that God took an oath from the Children of Adam then yes I'd go with that as meaning mankind. But it doesn't it says the descendants were taken brought forth from the children of Adam as in from the first generation of kids that Adam had. From that first generation God brought forth more generations and took an oath from them.

You could argue that there was no physical incest involved if God miraculously created children from Adams first kids.

We need to understand the roots of idolatry and how has humans we are inclined to follow the ways of our parents and fore fathers. As children we simply accept what our parents and elders tell us. We trust them since we have that bond with them. It's only when we become of age that we start questioning what we do. Most of us simply carry on following what our parents have taught us (hence the conflict between Sunnis and Shias, celebrating the prophets b'day, etc). These practices and beliefs then get's passed onto further generations and the cycle continues and the generations become quite passionate about the beliefs and practices of the fathers and fore fathers. So from this we can see how idolatry can creep in then become embedded in a nation.

Is it fair that as children we should be punished for obeying our parents since we've been designed to obey them?

So what I think God is saying is that look, the earliest generation of people never worshipped idols because I personally made them testify to this. It's only later generations that started to make up idols. Now that you know this don't use the excuse that you didn't know. Don't say that we were only following our forefathers.

The verses are also specifically referring to the idol worshippers in Mecca. It's not referring to the Jews or Christians since they have a book from God. The words "lest you should say" makes sense when applied to the Meccan idol worshippers but not the Jews or Christians.

If we take a look at this part for the verse - ""Am I not your Lord?" They said, "Yes, we have testified."". It's worth noting that it says "They said". It makes sense that "They" is a reference to a previous generation. If it was all of mankind then it would make more sense to say "You all said". This would make it clear.

Sometimes I think you just need to accept the simplest, logical meaning which is useful. Why do mental gymnastics to make sense of something?

Hope that makes sense