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Offline miracle114

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Names of the 12 mths
« on: July 16, 2018, 03:38:18 PM »
Salaam all
How would one know what the 12mths are without learning it from tradition? Does the Quran name all 12mths as a new concept or were they already in use before?

Kind regards jzk

Offline Wakas

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Re: Names of the 12 mths
« Reply #1 on: July 16, 2018, 08:04:28 PM »
peace,

You could try a word search of Quran or a topical index search of Quran, using the tools at www.StudyQuran.org to answer your question.

e.g.
from http://www.studyquran.org/TopicsIndex.htm
under "c" it lists "calendar", click on it, then it will show you the verses on that topic, e.g.

Quote
Calendar

lunar 2:189, 10:5
correctness of 9:37 (foils politically opportune intercalations)
disbelievers tamper with annual intercalation 9:37


To answer your question however, no, Quran does not name months. History indicates there were several calendars in use at the time and there was likely different names for the months. The history surrounding the fixing of the Traditional Islamic calendar (and even month names) is somewhat unclear.

Offline miracle114

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Re: Names of the 12 mths
« Reply #2 on: July 16, 2018, 11:21:08 PM »
Salaam and Jzk brother wakas for the sources. I will Insha Allah have a look soon.
I was wondering how one could verify that ramadhan is indeed the 9th month of the historical calendar using the Quran alone

Kind regards and peace


Offline Duster

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Re: Names of the 12 mths
« Reply #3 on: July 17, 2018, 07:31:27 PM »
Salaam and Jzk brother wakas for the sources. I will Insha Allah have a look soon.
I was wondering how one could verify that ramadhan is indeed the 9th month of the historical calendar using the Quran alone

Kind regards and peace

Shalom / peace Miracle114 ...... No one can verify that Ramadan is the 9th month of the historical calendar or any of the months just from the Quran ... That's why bro Joseph and others on this forum don't believe in or advocate the indefensible 'Quran alone' approach ........ They advocate the 'Quran-centric' approach and accept the language of the Arab people prior to the Quran's revelation ..... As br. Joseph said below...

Quote
"As you know dear brother, the Quran did not intend to 'define' the Arabic language. It expected its primary audience to be familiar with the cradle of the language through which it spoke to them.

http://quransmessage.com/forum/index.php?topic=925.msg3573#msg3573

Offline miracle114

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Re: Names of the 12 mths
« Reply #4 on: July 18, 2018, 02:51:30 AM »
Peace brother duster
Yes I fully agree I just wanted to check if there was an answer in the Quran. I understand ramadhan as a month would already have been in effect but I was wondering if there was anyway to confirm this because there already seems to be confusion around what the four sacred months are.

Jzk and kind regards

Offline Wakas

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Re: Names of the 12 mths
« Reply #5 on: July 21, 2018, 07:15:44 AM »
Why not take a step back and instead of trying to figure out what month is what, why not ponder over what a universal calendar for mankind would contain and why.

Assuming one is dissatisfied with the seemingly arbitrary, error laden, unverifiable Traditional Islamic calendar.

Offline Hamzeh

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Re: Names of the 12 mths
« Reply #6 on: July 23, 2018, 05:02:58 AM »
Asalamu 3alykum

Just to add to brother Dusters comments the Quran did not teach or invent a new calendar.

It had spoke to the recipients with the calender they already had. This is obvious by that it mentions a name of a month of Ramadan or the day of Jum3a for example.

It is also possible that there may of been various calenders and ways to tell time that was in circulation during the Qurans was being revealed and before it. There seems to be evidence from 18:25 that not all people shared the same calender. Some said 300 years some said 309 years. A calender is neither correct or wrong. Its just how people choose to agree on how to communicate time and a relative point of view to communicate time.

However God did choose to pick the system of the Arabs to communicate His message and to point out when is the four sacred months and when people need to fast and congregate for prayers etc.

I don't see any reason to reject the tradtional Arabic calender year. One would need to prove that the current Arabic calendar we have with us today was changed/corrupted if they don't accept it.

There is however evidence from the Quran when the holy sacred months are and they do not align with the tradtional view. I think this is a different matter and the Quran does indicate or point out the correct holy month that God has choosen for His servants.

Please see article below and from 9:2-5 one may tell which month are sacred.

At the end we do need to understand that the Quran is for all people but need to carefully also understand that God had choosen to use the Arabic calender/language as a relative starting point of explaining His revelation.

Although God could of used any peoples system to guide people there does after all need to be a platform from where telling time, explanations and guidance needs to start off with and God had choosen the Arabic language to reveal His final Scripture and used that nations system to explain to humanity what He wanted. That being said it does not restrict guidance in Arabic only or only the Arabs. God guides whom He wills in whatever way He wills and when He wants.

Hope that also helps Insha'Allah

Salam


THE 'LOST' MONTHS OF HAJJ
http://quransmessage.com/articles/the lost months of hajj FM3.htm

Offline munir rana

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Re: Names of the 12 mths
« Reply #7 on: July 23, 2018, 02:35:32 PM »
Salam Brother Hamzeh

A side note regarding your response. I thought it was not said by the people as you mentioned.  `Some said 300 years some said 309 years.` Rather it was a statement by the Almighty and a very powerful statement indeed.
18: 25 And they remained in their cave for three hundred years and add nine.

please correct me if i am wrong.

Offline Hamzeh

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Re: Names of the 12 mths
« Reply #8 on: July 26, 2018, 03:17:27 PM »
Wa 3alykum assalam brother Munir Rana

In my humble opinion the statement seems to be said by generations  after the event had happened. It could of also been a tale or statement that has been transpiring even in the time of prophet Muhammad (pbuh) by Muslims, Christians or Jews.

This is very telling by reading the next verse 18:26 where the Almighty Lord tells the prophet to "say" (Qul)  " Allah is best aware how long they tarried..."

I would read this verse with brackets:

18:25 And (it is said) they tarried in their Cave three hundred years and add nine.

God knows best of course.

Salam

Offline Athman

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Re: Names of the 12 mths
« Reply #9 on: July 26, 2018, 03:52:39 PM »
As salaam alaikum,

Dear Hamzeh,

I think I do concur with your interpretation. Also, regarding such a tale amongst generations later to the Prophet’s time, it is noteworthy that three groups gave some guesswork over their numbers as seen in 18:22. One can also relate to the wisdom imparted at the end of that verse ‘...and do not inquire about them among them [the speculators] from anyone.

Otherwise, it is also noted in 18:12 that 'two groups' were involved in the reckoning of their stay in the cave.

Then We awakened them that We might show which of the two factions was most precise in calculating what [extent] they had remained in time.” (Qur’an, Al-Kahf 18:12)

I hope that also slightly helps.


Regards,
Athmani.

Offline Hamzeh

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Re: Names of the 12 mths
« Reply #10 on: July 27, 2018, 04:24:21 PM »
Wa 3alykum assalam

Thank you brother Athmani for pointing that out. Jazak Allah khair Insha'Allah

Yes the two groups in 18:12 may likely be the ones who said 300 years and 309 years.

The guesswork in my humble opinion could of been people from the people of the caves era and transpired to the time of the prophet Muhammad (pbuh) 

God knows best.

Salam