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Offline Beyond Tradition

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Dear Brother Joseph ,
I like you to input your thought on this thread. Many scholars try to show example of methemetical linguistic miracle of many Surah like Al Bakara ( Surah # 2) has 286 verses. And middle of this Surah the verse number # 143 which state middle nation .....
beside this they try to prove the athenticity of the Quran by showing some miracle methemetical consistency from many Surah . My question is , this type of methemetical consistency really significant to invite non believers to accept Quoran’s message as God’s scripture ? Some scholar try to prove the athenticity of the Quran when science is discovering the truth which was stated in Quran 1400  years ago . My question is also , was God waiting for the advanced world when men will discover the truth ? If so then what was the use of those Surah and verses for the people 1400 years ago ? I hope you are getting my points .  Pls input your thought .

Thanks . God bless you.

Offline Joseph Islam

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Wa alaikum assalam

I humbly do not believe that the Quran's authenticity needs to be proved through an enterprise that attempts to prove it to be a mathematical marvel.

As I have already shared, it is often unappreciated by many Muslims that headings and even verse numberings as we understand them today were absent in the earliest codices of the Quran. Therefore, it can be argued that they were never part of the Quranic revelation, despite any claims of later Islamic secondary sources. Early Quranic codices didn't even possess diacritical marks or vocalisations / vowel signs or even formally indicate when verses had ended. The primary mode of revelation and transmission was oral supported by a written transmission by the hands of noble scribes (80:13-16) [1]. Therefore, any attempt to prove a mathematical marvel is arguably a futile endeavour if verse numberings were only introduced for ease of reference later.

Furthermore, in respect to other mathematical enterprises devised to prove the Quran's authenticity, I have respectfully shared that "I require no arithmetic reassurance as the arguments of the Quran are absolutely clear and leave no doubt in my mind to its Divine provenance." That is my humble position.

I hope this helps, God willing
Joseph


REFERENCES:

[1] Translation without Interpretation
http://quransmessage.com/forum/index.php?topic=574.msg1981;topicseen#msg1981
[2] Code 19 and asking for Proof
http://quransmessage.com/forum/index.php?topic=259.msg779#msg779
[3] CODE 19 AND THE REMOVAL OF TWO VERSES FROM THE QURAN - A PROBLEMATIC THEORY
http://quransmessage.com/articles/19%20FM3.htm

'During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act' 
George Orwell

Offline Wakas

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peace,

Some things are not about verse/chapter numbers. The mathematical component of Quran (if there is one) would simply be one of multiple facets in terms of ascertaining its authenticity. You may find this interesting:
https://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9600321.msg307046#msg307046

Offline Duster

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As I have already shared, it is often unappreciated by many Muslims that headings and even verse numberings as we understand them today were absent in the earliest codices of the Quran. Therefore, it can be argued that they were never part of the Quranic revelation, despite any claims of later Islamic secondary sources. Early Quranic codices didn't even possess diacritical marks or vocalisations / vowel signs or even formally indicate when verses had ended.

Shalom / peace brother Joseph ..... as always thank you so much for all that you do and share ... I was quite interested in the above and also checked your references that you gave.......very interesting ...

Offline Beyond Tradition

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Brother Joseph ,
Salamun Alaikum.  I really grateful to you for giving me the time . I like your  logic and thoughts in Quran's perspective .  It will help me to understand many more things in the light of Quran.