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Offline Adil Husain

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Offline Joseph Islam

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Re: 25:30 - "messenger has said..." or "messenger will say...."
« Reply #1 on: November 19, 2012, 03:21:56 PM »
Peace Adil,

The best rendition of the verb is determined by context. For example, please note verse 5:119, where the perfect verb is rendered in the future tense despite the fact that the same perfect verb depending on context can be used to describe a narrative in the past (2:30).

The speaker of the Quran is God and not a human. God is not subject to time and space [1] and many narratives speak of future events if as though they have already transpired [2]. For God who is not restricted to a past, present or future in real terms, such narratives capture the omnipresence of the Creator and evident reality of the event being narrated.

Those proficient with Quranic dialogue and the classical language in which it is transmitted find this approach quite a quintessential narrative style of the Quran in many places. Hence, good translators attempt to capture the best nuance given the context and Quranic style.

Similarly, please note the surrounding context of verse 25:30 that you have shared. The dialogue is captured in a future context. Whether rendered to imply 'He will say' or 'He said' - the fact that the event occurs in the future does not change from the perspective of the reader who is in the present. This in my humble opinion is clear from the surrounding verses and context.

I hope that helps, God willing.
Joseph.

REFERENCES:

[1] PROBLEMS WITH LOCATING GOD IN TIME, SPACE AND AS PART OF HIS CREATION
http://quransmessage.com/articles/timeandspace%20FM3.htm
[2] MIRACLES OF THE PROPHET (pbuh) - Section "THE CASE OF THE MOON SPLITTING"
http://quransmessage.com/articles/prophet's%20miracles%20FM3.htm
[3] Related QM Q&A
http://quransmessage.com/forum/index.php?topic=408

 
'During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act' 
George Orwell

Offline HOPE

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Re: 25:30 - "messenger has said..." or "messenger will say...."
« Reply #2 on: November 19, 2012, 08:45:07 PM »
Salaam Joseph and Adil,

Quote
Whether rendered to imply 'He will say' or 'He said' - the fact that the event occurs in the future does not change from the perspective of the reader who is in the present

In other words, it is a timeless observation.  If it is taken as the [prophet said] then it refers to past events of his time as verses from 27on  show.  Some may have fluctuated between belief and disbelief or even left the deen and on that day will come to regret choosing the wrong guidance offered by the Evil-one instead of the right guidance offered by the Rasul through Quran.  This scenario will play over and over again till the end since the seductive appeal of shaytan will always lure man off the path.

 




UPDATE BY QM FORUM MODERATOR

13th March 2013

This thread is now closed and a direct link to this post is now available at the dedicated Q&A page.

http://quransmessage.com/articles/q&as%20FM3.htm

Thanks.


"Hope is like a bird that senses the dawn and carefully starts to sing while it is still dark"