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Offline ilker

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an interesting question about 4:24
« on: July 07, 2016, 09:03:47 AM »
salam brothers and sisters,

I've read brother Joseph's article about "slave girls" here: http://quransmessage.com/articles/sex%20with%20slave%20girls%20FM3.htm

So in 4:24 it is lawful to marry slave women who are already married. Some people say that those women are "automatically" become "divorced" when they are captured.

But then this question popped up in my mind: What if a wife gets captured together with her husband ? What if they are together slaves of a person and their owner wanted to marry the wife ?

Now, is it forbidden because they are married ? or is it lawful to marry her still ?

Offline deleted

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Re: an interesting question about 4:24
« Reply #1 on: July 07, 2016, 02:29:46 PM »
Peace.

If I might also. I know the "أَيْمَانُكُمْ" of "مَلَكَتْ أَيْمَانُكُمْ" of "وَالْمُحْصَنَاتُ مِنَ النِّسَاءِ إِلَّا مَا مَلَكَتْ أَيْمَانُكُمْ" is taken to mean "your right hands". What does that mean though?
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Offline Hamzeh

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Re: an interesting question about 4:24
« Reply #2 on: July 08, 2016, 01:52:29 AM »
Asalamu Alykum Ilker

First point to note is that marriage cannot happen unless both the male and the female agree to the marriage. There is no force in marriage.

Second point is that marriage is lawful between believing women and believing men. Even marriage is lawful between believers from the People of the Book and the believers of the final revelation(Quran).

2:221 And do not marry polytheistic women until they believe. And a believing slave woman is better than a polytheist, even though she might please you. And do not marry polytheistic men [to your women] until they believe. And a believing slave is better than a polytheist, even though he might please you. Those invite [you] to the Fire, but Allah invites to Paradise and to forgiveness, by His permission. And He makes clear His verses to the people that perhaps they may remember.

60.10 ...And if you know them to be believers, then do not return them to the disbelievers; they are not lawful [wives] for them, nor are they lawful [husbands] for them....

5:5 (Lawful unto you in marriage) are (not only) chaste women who are believers, but chaste women among the People of the Book, revealed before your time,- when ye give them their due dowers, and desire chastity, not lewdness, nor secret intrigues if any one rejects faith, fruitless is his work, and in the Hereafter he will be in the ranks of those who have lost (all spiritual good).


That being said and taken into consideration the above then the meaning of what your right hand possess has a different meaning than simply wedding any captive or women. This should be viewed as women who voluntarily left their previous lives and husbands and adapted and became believers. They do not need to be divorced. This is supported by the following verse 60:10

4:24 Also (prohibited are) women already married, except those whom your right hands possess: Thus hath Allah ordained (Prohibitions) against you: Except for these, all others are lawful, provided ye seek (them in marriage) with gifts from your property,- desiring chastity, not lust, seeing that ye derive benefit from them, give them their dowers (at least) as prescribed; but if, after a dower is prescribed, agree Mutually (to vary it), there is no blame on you, and Allah is All-knowing, All-wise.

060:010
"O you who have believed, when the believing women come to you as emigrants, examine them. Allah is most knowing as to their faith. And if you know them to be believers, then do not return them to the disbelievers; they are not lawful [wives] for them, nor are they lawful [husbands] for them. But give the disbelievers what they have spent. And there is no blame upon you if you marry them when you have given them their due compensation. And hold not to marriage bonds with disbelieving women, but ask for what you have spent and let them ask for what they have spent. That is the judgement of Allah ; He judges between you. And Allah is Knowing and Wise."



Please see the article below for a detailed explanation [1].

Peace

[1]. Also (prohibited are) women already married 4:24
http://quransmessage.com/forum/index.php?topic=1260.0

Offline Amira

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Re: an interesting question about 4:24
« Reply #3 on: July 11, 2016, 10:55:43 AM »
Assalamu Alaikum,

I agree with Hamzeh's explanation of this verse :) The captives in question should willingly give themselves up for marriage, otherwise it's not lawful.

O you who have believed, it is not lawful for you to inherit women by compulsion. And do not make difficulties for them in order to take [back] part of what you gave them unless they commit a clear immorality. And live with them in kindness. For if you dislike them - perhaps you dislike a thing and Allah makes therein much good. (4:19)
“Narrated Buraydah ibn al-Hasib: I heard the Apostle of Allah say: In eloquence there is magic, in knowledge ignorance, and in poetry wisdom”

“Historically, what is or isn’t mainstream (in Islam) has always been a function of power, not of truth.” (Iyad El-Baghdadi, Arab Spring activist)

Offline Hamzeh

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Re: an interesting question about 4:24
« Reply #4 on: July 11, 2016, 02:17:10 PM »
Wa alykum wa salam

Thank you for pointing that out Amira. Yes that verse would clarify the fact that there shall be no force in marriage. Even though that verse is in the context of a couple already married, it would apply in the same manner to unmarried couples. That verse seems to answer that even women have the same right to divorce as men for some reason or another and secondly that a marriage needs to have a mutual agreement before it takes place.

Peace