Messages

16

General Discussions / Re: Critique - DOES THE QURAN ALLOW ... DOGS, CATS, RATS ETC? by Arman Aziz

« on: February 07, 2014, 11:58:15 PM »

Salaam.

It is the responsibility of any State, for that matter, to bring legislation on matters of health.

Also, it is the individual's paramount responsibility to guard his health, keeping in mind, his individual, constitutional requirements.

You know Auto Urine Therapy?

I have witnessed a small girl having been cured of Leukemia (blood cancer), with the help of AUT.

And, Abbsrayray, I mentioned mercury poisoning of fish (well known to news readers), over and above your remark regarding poisonous creatures. Meaning, that I appreciated your warning regarding the hazards of trying to consume creatures of the sea, and just, humbly added one more point.

Regards,
A. Ismail Sait.

17

Islamic Duties / Re: A counter to Quranists

« on: February 07, 2014, 10:33:36 PM »

Salaam.

(33:67) is about obeying leaders and elders to the detriment of obeying Divine Commandments.

This has been dwelt at length in the Qur'an, and I think, it needs no elaboration.

After all, Grandma's home-made preparations for common ailments, is very famous.

Also, every child in the world has been brought up an the belief that reverential obedience of elders and leaders is essential.

But, Qur'an stresses, even as all the Prophets of yore have stressed, that there is no doubt that people in general do know, understand, and discriminate regarding worldly matters But that they are forgetful and heedless regarding the Hereafter. (30:7)

So none of them should be trusted regarding matters regarding the Hereafter.

For, no word is trustworthy regarding the Hereafter, except the Word of God.

(66:1) is about the Prophet prohibiting upon himself something unspecified - except that God had allowed it for him -  in the Qur'an, in order to please his wives.

As a child, I had read a warning by the department of Railways, written on every passenger coach:

"Those who do not buy tickets with intention to defraud, will be prosecuted".

Similarly, if someone forbids, in religion, what God has made lawful, religion-wise, then, it is nothing but Shirk.

But God did not like even a semblance of Shirk from His Prophet. Allah's Choicest Blessings be on him.

Regards,
A. Ismail Sait.



 

18

General Discussions / Re: Critique - DOES THE QURAN ALLOW ... DOGS, CATS, RATS ETC? by Arman Aziz

« on: February 07, 2014, 02:10:00 AM »

Salaam.

And, Saba,

The food of The people of the Book is lawful for us because they do not slaughter anything unwholesome.

Also, Muslims do not slaughter anything unwholesome.

The term used in the relevant verse (5:5) is Alladheena Oothul Kithaba, and not Ahlul Kithab, for the Jews and Christians.

Each term has been used in the Qur'an in particular places to denote the Jews and the Christians.

And, according to one opinion, the former term denotes the true believers, and, the latter term is used in general, as we use the term 'Muslim', in general.

Since, in (5:5), the former term is used, it means the food of the upright among the people of the book.

Also, in (5:5), it is not said that the Muslim's food is halaal for them. The pronoun 'your' is used, denoting Prophet Muhammed's flock. God's Choicest Blessings be on them.

For example, here in India, as far as I have seen, when any animal like a bull, sheep or poultry nears its death especially due to some disease, and the keeper loses hope of its recovery, it is rushed to some Mullah, who slaauters it in the name of God. And everybody considers it allowed.

At the same time, everybody agrees that it doesn't taste good. Naturally, all the poison produced in its body by the disease will be there in its flesh.

And, God forbids all unwholesome food, unequivocally, in several places in Al Qur'an.

And, now, to quote from another post of mine in this thread,   Reply #55 on: February 01, 2014:                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             "Now, a word about "eating everything" except the prohibited 4 items.

The whole exercise of divine prohibitions begins with the words:

O ye people! Eat of what is on earth, lawful and good....(2:168)"

The Qur'an mentions the quality of being thayyib (good or wholesome) for anything to be halaal (lawful). See (2:168, 5:88, 8:69, 16:114, 7:157).

The opposite of wholesome is unwholesome, as in 7:157. There, all unwholesome things are mentioned as forbidden.

Now, among Allah's myriad kinds of creatures - millions of them on this Earth, will you count as unwholesome all, other than the Baheemathul An'am of (5:1)?

Regards,
In all humbleness,
A. Ismail Sait.

19

Islamic Duties / Re: A counter to Quranists

« on: February 07, 2014, 12:21:52 AM »

Salaam.

'However in another aspect in my view, being "Qur'an-centric" is a part of what I see as the "Arabization of Islam".'

I ask, avoiding the terms, 'Qur'an-centric', etc:

Naturally, a person who believes in Qur'an will want to study it.

And, it is in the Arabic language. Inevitably, he has to delve into the nuances of the language, at least with respect to the Qur'an, in order to understand it.

In order to enjoy Shakespeare, we have to be well versed in the English of Shakespeare's times.

Of course, Qur'an is more than that.

Therefore, in my view, it is only that the Study of the Qur'an should not lead us to adopt any prejudices regarding languages. Qur'an itself makes this matter clear.

And, the Qur'an guides us to what is most firm and most consistent. (17:9)

Most firmly and consistently, it gives glad tidings to those who believe and do good deeds. (17:9)

Most firmly and consistently, it announces, that God has prepared for those who believe not in the Hereafter, a grievous chastisement. (17:10)

This is the same theme as in (2:62, 5:69), yet, with a special emphasis regarding the belief in the Hereafter.

No prejudice arises from the diligent and constant study and recitation of the Qur'an.

Every kind of prejudice is attributable to the step motherly treatment given to the Qur'an, as by the 'orthodox' Muslims.

The real scholars of the Divine Book, irrespective of which language it was revealed in, are not at all arrogant and prejudiced (5:82).

Regards,
A. Ismail Sait.

 

20

General Discussions / Re: Critique - DOES THE QURAN ALLOW ... DOGS, CATS, RATS ETC? by Arman Aziz

« on: February 06, 2014, 01:55:07 AM »

Salaam.

Please don't think I am in anyway disgruntled with your posts.

I have a duty to make myself understood.

I will begin with my following post:

Reply #78 on: February 02, 2014, 08:15:21 PM

Salaam.

Abbsrayray's latest post expresses heartfelt genuine concerns.

Even the laḥman ṭariyyan of well known, edible fish today is prone to mercury poisoning in some places on the globe.

Such are genuine concerns, and must be appreciated.

But this does not take away the decree of their being halaal.

They are not thayyib. God always asks us to eat that which is halaalan thayyiban (2:168, 5:88, 8:69, 16:114).

Regards,
A. Ismail Sait.

The example was conventional edible fish, but, prone to mercury poisoning in some parts of the Globe, due probably to industrial effluents seeping into the sea - a modern phenomenon.

Then I said, that flesh of the edible type of fish, designated laḥman ṭariyyan (fresh and tender), as in (16:14 and 35:12), does not automatically become divinely allowable, in view of 2:168, 5:88, 8:69, and 16:114.

Such exceptions due to natural viciousness, or artificially caused viciousness will be many, as regards animal food in general.

As such our generalized expression "cats,dogs, rats, etc." is misleading.
                                                                                                                                                            There are more things to be made clear, in sha Allah, sooner than later.

Only then, your two questions may be deemed answered properly. Meanwhile, you are most welcome to ask for any clarification.

Regards,
A. Ismail Sait.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   

21

General Discussions / Re: Critique - DOES THE QURAN ALLOW ... DOGS, CATS, RATS ETC? by Arman Aziz

« on: February 05, 2014, 11:51:19 PM »

Salaam.

Al Hamdu Lillah, I am trying to write a comprehensive, strictly Qur'anic review of the lawful and unlawful as regards non veg food.

The following is an off-the-cuff answer:

Supposing, all the boys in a school have gathered for the morning prayers.

There, the Principal announces, by naming three boys belonging to the 4th Standard that they are allowed to attend classes.

After the prayer meeting, all the boys, including the named ones will march to their respective classes.

Nobody will think that what the Principal meant was that only the named ones should attend classes.

Similar is the case of (5:1) as regards allowing the named category. The context here seems to be any possible doubt or a question regarding the continuation of the traditional culture of eating Al An'am. I have already dwelt on this in a previous post.

Regards,
A. Ismail Sait.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   

22

General Discussions / Re: Critique - DOES THE QURAN ALLOW ... DOGS, CATS, RATS ETC? by Arman Aziz

« on: February 05, 2014, 08:02:51 PM »

Salaam.

Saba,

Your question was:

"Do you know of any community or communities now or ever where dogs, cats, rats, lions or anything thing but livestock was sacrificed to gods?? especially at the time around Arabia when prophet Muhammad (saw) was preaching?"

I have answered the first part of your question.

As for "especially ...", I do not have any particular resource to answer it. Let us focus on the Omniscient.

Regards,
A. Ismail Sait. 

23

General Discussions / Re: Critique - DOES THE QURAN ALLOW ... DOGS, CATS, RATS ETC? by Arman Aziz

« on: February 05, 2014, 01:59:02 AM »

Salaam.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashvamedha

Regards,
A. Ismail Sait.

24

General Discussions / Re: Critique - DOES THE QURAN ALLOW ... DOGS, CATS, RATS ETC? by Arman Aziz

« on: February 05, 2014, 12:01:26 AM »

Salaam.

DO YOU EXPECT THAT ALLAH IS FORBIDDING HERE (ALSO IN 6:145)  PEOPLE FROM DEDICATING  RATS, CATS, MONKEYS, AND DOGS TO OTHERS OTHER THAN ALLAH? (ALLAH FORBID!!)

But I have seen people slaughter poultry on the altar of a Hindu temple in Andhra Prdesh, India.

Regards,
A. Ismail Sait.

25

General Discussions / Re: World's 85 richest people own half of global wealth..!!

« on: February 04, 2014, 11:18:42 PM »

Salaam.

A good article on this subject:

http://www.thehindu.com/todays-paper/tp-opinion/mythmaking-about-economic-inequality/article5650957.ece

Regards,
A. Ismail Sait.

26

General Discussions / Re: Critique - DOES THE QURAN ALLOW ... DOGS, CATS, RATS ETC? by Arman Aziz

« on: February 03, 2014, 03:15:21 AM »

Salaam.

Abbsrayray's latest post expresses heartfelt genuine concerns.

Even the laḥman ṭariyyan of well known, edible fish today is prone to mercury poisoning in some places on the globe.

Such are genuine concerns, and must be appreciated.

But this does not take away the decree of their being halaal.

They are not thayyib. God always asks us to eat that which is halaalan thayyiban (2:168, 5:88, 8:69, 16:114).

Regards,
A. Ismail Sait. 

27

General Discussions / Re: Critique - DOES THE QURAN ALLOW ... DOGS, CATS, RATS ETC? by Arman Aziz

« on: February 03, 2014, 02:45:39 AM »

Salaam.

Vehement arguments will not cause people to get disgruntled with the site.

Arguments mired with sarcastic remarks will certainly take the sheen out of this site.

The Chief Administrator must institute strict rules of conversation.

That will, in sha Allah, bring to bear the Grace of Allah upon this site.

Saba,

Please note that in 5:4, we have: They ask you what has been made halaal for them. Say, good things, and what your trained hunting animals catch for you...

Again, in 5:5, this day are all good things made lawful for you, the food of the people of the book...

In 5:1, of course, special mention is made of ordinary livestock.

This is because livestock come under the category of good and wholesome food.

More over, the four exceptions are preeminently suited to the livestock. One of the reasons is that swine tended to be bracketed with ordinary livestock, or even preferably better for those who relished it.

So the paramount necessity for it to be exempted from being counted among the livestock.

The ordinary livestock are the major-most and widely appreciated, preferred, and commonly used item of meat. At least, before the cheap poultry has taken over this preference from at least the lower income group of society, thanks to technological innovations.

Due to these, and may be not-mentioned reasons of clarification from the public, or whatever other reason, the Omniscient Almighty mentioned it as having been made halaal.

The whole Qur'an is replete with the utmost leniency regarding every regulation except the moral ones - the Core, Cardinal, Universal Values - The Spiritual Legacy of All Mankind - as in (6:151-152-153).

Among the Cardinal Values, is the prohibition of all kinds of obscenities. Therefore, there is no ambiguity regarding the prohibition of fornication, adultery, homosexuality, bestiality, all kinds of sexual perversion and depravity, miserliness, avarice, etc.

Regards,
A. Ismail Sait.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       

28

General Discussions / Re: Critique - DOES THE QURAN ALLOW ... DOGS, CATS, RATS ETC? by Arman Aziz

« on: February 02, 2014, 12:56:34 PM »

Salaam.

Also, the extreme way of speech in {6:145}, is an eloquent testimony to the fact, that it's context is not confined to the immediately preceding Verses.

Regards,
A. Ismail Sait.

29

General Discussions / Re: Critique - DOES THE QURAN ALLOW ... DOGS, CATS, RATS ETC? by Arman Aziz

« on: February 02, 2014, 12:29:06 PM »

Salaam.

Saba says: "Why did Allah mention grazing animals for lawfulness in verse 5-1 if all animals were halal anyway?"

Because they are lawful, and, because, they are the ones generally consumed all over the world, or at least in the then Arabia.

That they are all lawful, except hunted down in the state of ihraam, and also, that they are all lawful, barring the already mentioned prohibitions.

For us, they are included in (2:168-176).

The mention of a particular (yet universally acknowledged category of animals in 5:1 cannot be construed as being the only explanation for (2:168), and (2:172).

If it were the only thing halaal among animals, it would have found a place much earlier, within or about (2:168-176), and, in an unequivocal way of saying.

Also, brother Deliverance, the word 'game' in the phrase 'game of water', in (5:96), is basically an infinitive, which means 'hunting', and can be used to mean the hunted, or game, as you said.

That is why in translations we find "the pursuit of water game", in this context.

But, if we mean the hunted, then also, the next phrase 'it's food' will mean the edible portion of the game, and this, in the sense of fish, will be the edible portion left after discarding the fins, intestines, etc. and this is usually dried and preserved, for use in travel, etc. as the verse indicates.

Regards,
A. Ismail Sait.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               

30

General Discussions / Re: Wine in the Quran

« on: February 02, 2014, 05:37:40 AM »

Salaam.

Deliverance, I do not know which story you are referring to.

Regards,
A. Ismail Sait.