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Offline AbbsRay

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Re: Who are "We"
« Reply #15 on: March 06, 2014, 04:18:35 AM »
Salaam Deliverance,

Is that a question for me?

Offline Hamzeh

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Re: Who are "We"
« Reply #16 on: March 09, 2014, 06:36:42 AM »
Asalamu Alaykum

in the example of Moses companion that Deliverance posted is interesting.  The companion of Moses had been given mercy from Allah and had taught knowledge and given him knowledge of the future.

18:65 So they found one of Our servants, on whom We had bestowed Mercy from Ourselves and whom We had taught knowledge from Our own Presence


If I had to guess I would say that because he was given knowledge of the future from Allah. Allah would and could maybe also send the companion a Angel.

So with this thought in mind:

18:78 the "I" would be a referance to the companion himself as he was already given the knowledge of the king who is taking ships by force. So he decided to do that physically.
18:79 Moses companion had knowledge of this boy what he would do if he got older. So the companion and who ever gave him the knowledge(maybe Angel) feared he would be rebellious and they intended 18:80 (the companion and who was handing him the info maybe Angel) that their Lord change him for a more better, purer and nearer to mercy child. 18:81 the Lord told them that the boys should come to their full strength and then aquire their treasure as a mercy from their Lord.

And everything he did was not of his own command. Maybe all this happened that Allah sent him a Angel to command him.

Allah knows best.

I dont know how else to look at it.

though I would really like someone to give their opinion on this. It is interesting and never before payed attention to it before.

salam


Offline Deliverance

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Re: Who are "We"
« Reply #17 on: April 23, 2014, 01:38:48 AM »
But there are People mentioned in the Quran ,who did not belive in the Message of the Prophets and they even fight them,but he did not send angels to them,they are only send for a particular reason ,i don´t find the ayat right now.
There are a lot of wicked Kids but the creator let them do like he let all tyranns in History let them do what they did.

I think the Story is a Vision of Moses and it seems like it is representing Moses life:

drowning the boat=Moses was saved in a boat from killing
killing the Boy      =Moses killed and egyptian
People in village dont serve them Food=Moses expel from egypt
Wall with treasure for two orphans=Moses and Haruns Chosen by God

Thats just a theory Allahu alam

Offline Ismail

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Re: Who are "We"
« Reply #18 on: April 24, 2014, 11:11:57 PM »
Salaam.

"There are a lot of wicked Kids but the creator let them do like he let all tyrants in History let them do what they did."

Yes, the letting them or not letting them do a particular thing depends on God's Will.

And whatever God wills, always has an intelligent reason behind it.

The three episodes of the unnamed Servant of God illustrate this very point.

"...And I did it not of my own accord..." (18:82).

There is nothing superfluous, haphazard, cruel, or unwise going on in God's Domain.

We mortals may not be able to fully grasp the import of Divine dispensations due to lack of in-depth knowledge. And hence our inappropriate emotional reactions.

Regards,
A. Ismail Sait. 

 




Offline Deliverance

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Re: Who are "We"
« Reply #19 on: April 25, 2014, 12:09:19 AM »
"...And I did it not of my own accord..." (18:82).

He did it not by his will according to this ayat,if it is an angle it wouldn´t be mentioned that he didn´t act on his own,so we can suppose that it is a Human but we have seen that the pronouns changed from "I" to "WE" in accompany with the use of the word"Lord",which makes this individual part of an divine gathering.

If he is a Prophet then he had a licence to kill a Person who might do harm to his parents"And as for the lad, his parents were believers and we feared lest he should oppress them by rebellion and disbelief. (80) "

If he is a holy Person like some say then he did a sin like the son of Adam who killed his brother Sura 5""For me, I intend to let thee draw on thyself my sin as well as thine, for thou wilt be among the companions of the Fire and that is the reward of those who do wrong." (29) "

I like the Statement of mine,that all this is dream,i came to this because of the fish and his former companion  who suddenly disappered.

Offline Ismail

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Re: Who are "We"
« Reply #20 on: April 25, 2014, 04:53:57 AM »
Salaam.

"I like the Statement of mine,that all this is dream,i came to this because of the fish and his former companion  who suddenly disappeared".

Moses' man Friday is not the central figure. So he has had only a limited mention.

The fish seems to have been caught while they halted at the rock, and, due to some negligence, it wriggled out and disappeared into the water. Satan tried to throw a spanner in the works. But the delayed return to the spot in the hope of securing the fish proved to be the exact time when the unnamed Servant of God was within view of Moses.

Allahu A'lam.

Regards,
A. Ismail Sait. 

Offline Deliverance

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Re: Who are "We"
« Reply #21 on: April 26, 2014, 03:38:07 AM »
I found this ayat which could shed some light to the unnamed servant in sura 18.

Sura 4"Christ disdaineth not to serve and worship Allah, nor do the angels, those nearest (to Allah): those who disdain His worship and are arrogant― He will gather them all together unto Himself to (answer). (172) "

in other Translation they used for "abdan" slave ,Yusuf Ali´s translation fits better to understand that Angles are also "abdan"


Offline Ismail

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Re: Who are "We"
« Reply #22 on: April 26, 2014, 06:59:24 PM »

Salaam.

Quite.

True to his being "a servant among Our servants", as God says while mentioning him for the first time (18:65) - and He mentions him afterwards in pronouns only - he tells Moses in unequivocal terms, that his wonderful accomplishments were only "a beneficence from your Lord..."(18:82).

Regards,
A. Ismail Sait.

Offline Deliverance

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Re: Who are "We"
« Reply #23 on: May 19, 2014, 04:27:33 PM »
I have found the use of "WE" in the divine gathering when Adam was created and it is said
Quote
And when We said unto the angels: Prostrate yourselves before Adam, they fell prostrate, all save Iblis. He demurred through pride, and so became a disbeliever. (34)

Here we can exclude the angles to be part of the "WE" which gave a command to them and Satan/iblis is also not part of the "WE"

But there are divine entities which were not mention and sometimes occur in the Quran,some call them Arcangles and if you read the Quran you will there a mentioned seperated from angles.

Either they "JIBRIEL" and "MIKAIEL" belong to "WE" and this is the reason why the use of plural or they belong to the angles.