fasting and relations with spouses

[Hamzeh]

Salamu Alaykum brother Joseph

The kutba(lesson) at the friday prayer today was what a man or women can do with there spouses.  After hearing so much ahadith which I got used to even though over the past little while I just go there for the sake of praying to GOD and to attend the Congressional prayer. But today it really just made me think that every who was there should of questioned this.

I know sura 2:187 talks about you can have relations with the spouses after night or breaking fast.
Now what I was hearing is that the prophet used to touch kiss play with his wives during fasting but would control his self. And also heard many other hadith saying how his companions did the same and that you can do these things but just be careful not to reach you know.   may Allah forgive me for even listening to things like this.

there was little children sitting and it was kind of weird. The speech was that you may touch the private parts and kiss and touch which was pretty disturbing. What came to mind was doesn't that break the fast of the women. I mean would there be explicit verses from the Quran to prove you can't do this.   

Salam

[Joseph Islam]

Dear Hamzeh,

Wa alaikum assalam

As I am sure you will agree, this is an example of nothing but sickness that at times pervades the secondary sources, those sick blind minds that promulgate it, and its insidious effect on true guidance. Anyone with an iota of spiritual sense and decency would inherently know that there is a conflict with the very meaning of abstaining in all manner of ways, including food and drink during 'fasting' and these reports. Only a hideous, ill-thought, blind following individual would ever consider these sordid inferences as 'correct deen'.

You are absolutely correct. The Quran makes it clear when one can approach their wives (2:187). If food and drink is also forbidden to enable one to reach 'taqwa', it would be inconceivable that a prophet of God would engage in the dubious actions that are attributed to his name by fallible men. There is nothing more to add brother Hamzeh. It is simply disgusting and even so, to hear such filth come from the mouths of those that say they 'love the prophet', yet seemingly, cannot even protect his honour.

One can only imagine how narratives such as these can leave some questioning their 'religion'. It is a shame. There are more examples of dubious reports including the one that you have shared:

http://quransmessage.com/(7)%20Updates/hadith-enter%20-%20live.htm

Regards,
Joseph

[Hamzeh]

Thank you brother Joseph Alhamdulila I feel a little better that you replied . I was just really frustrated today and I sometimes tell myself when I hear things that seem to be out of balance that I hope people change and start realizing that they need to check back to the Quran when things seem odd. But this time I was really upset and saddened how they can speak of a Prophet of GOD like that. And his wives. As if any man would sit there and give details about things.

Thanks again brother

May Allah bless you and your family Insha'Allah

Salam

[kabiru74]

SALAM. i really appreciate this post. i was once a victim of this kind of preaching. its so disgusting. its really a deadly disease for anybody to blindly follow without thorough investigation. May Allah's mercy be upon us.
please brother joseph, is it fit for us to say that it is HARAM categorically to come in contact with your spouses during the day time, as the Quran did not say it is haram outrightly?
I am saying this with respect to the verse that says dont utter lies with your tongues to say this haram or halal to lie against God. masalam

[Joseph Islam]

please brother joseph, is it fit for us to say that it is HARAM categorically to come in contact with your spouses during the day time, as the Quran did not say it is haram outrightly?

Dear kabiru74

Wa alaikum assalam

When the Quran has categorically, unequivocally, explicitly stated the 'sexual remit' (rafath)* of what is 'permissible contact' during Ramadan (i.e. "It is made lawful / permissible for you to go into (rafath) your wives on the night of the fast..." 2:187), what does this mean? I believe categorically the answer is obvious. In my humble view, it is then unreasonable for one to expect the Quran to state what is 'not permissible' with the word 'haram', when the context is absolutely clear.

* rafath (sex, conduct of a sexual nature, lie with for sexual, immodest speech or behaviour, sexuality, lewdness)

For example:

•   You can only drive at night. What does this mean?
•   You can only eat between the hours of darkness. What does this mean?
•   You may only study physics in this classroom. What does this mean?

As another crude example, if God instructs believers that they should only eat food which is 'halal / lawful' as stipulated by the Quran,  is it then reasonable to expect the Quran to also provide a long list of every single food item known to human knowledge labelling it as 'haram'? With respect, in my humble view, arguably not.

Please kindly remember that the contact that is being intimated here is 'sexual contact' or contact of a 'sexual nature' and not any other contact. This is not permissible whilst one is fasting.

I trust that this clarifies the matter, God willing.

Regards,
Joseph

[kabiru74]

Salam brother joseph. thanks so much for the quick response and it clarifies the matter. it is absolutely clear that the opposite of halal/permissible is haram/prohibited. does this further goes to say that one can declare haram and halal in other issues when such situation like this arises?? this i believe could be the reasons for so many halal and haram declarations in the Islamic world today i.e halal or haram by deduction.
Is it not safer to just avoid the word haram or halal usage for safety purpose?

Then at what point does this rule apply that we should not utter with our tonques to declare haram and halal to lie against God?

please clarify.
masalam
 

[Joseph Islam]

Then at what point does this rule apply that we should not utter with our tonques to declare haram and halal to lie against God?

please clarify.
masalam

Dear kabiru74

Wa alaikum assalam

One example would be to assert that in Islam, men cannot where gold items and then use 'Ahadith' to provide authority. This would arguably be making something 'forbidden' when there is absolutely no support for this in the Quran and moreover, there are verses which can negate such an unwarranted religious decree.

DOES THE QURAN PROHIBIT GOLD AND SILK FOR MEN?
http://quransmessage.com/articles/prohibition%20of%20silk%20and%20gold%20for%20men%20FM3.htm

I hope that helps, God willing
Joseph

[kabiru74]

Salam Dear Brother Joseph,
thanks for the clarification.
masalam.