Quran according to Joseph Islam

[Donald Hysa]

Peace be with you all  I came across this  forum after seeing some of Joseph Islam's posts in Facebook. I  understand why he would reject the Hadith but I find his interpretation of Quran very interesting that's why  I'd love to know his opinions on certain aspects of the Quran and Mohamed that I have found a bit inconsistent.However anyone's opinion on the following questions is very welcomed.

1. God and the purpose of existence
a) In many verses God(Allah) is described as the creator of all things.No matter what we are expected to understand from this statement it is technically false. How can this be true if there is at least one thing God has never created,Himself?
 
b) On the purpose of creation Quran says God created us to worship him. But Quran also says  God has no needs. To put it shortly if God has no need for us that means our existence is completely  unnecessary. So how can our existence serve any purpose if it is unnecessary since purpose implies necessity?

2. Creation of Man
Quran says:`Behold,' your Lord said to the angels: `I will create a khalifah (vicegerent) on earth.' They said: `Will You place therein one who will make mischief therein and shed blood? While we do celebrate Your praises (chant gratitude) and glorify Your holy (name)?' He said: `I know what you know not.' (Surah 2 Al Baqarah: 30)

a) Do angles have free will since they are able to question God?

b) Do angels know the future since he predicts what humanity will do on Earth?

c) If angels know the future how could this angel be so wrong about humanity since  the actual creature that causes mischief and bloodshed on Earth is Satan(According to Quran  all wrong  things happen cause people disobey God and people disobey God cause of Satan meaning the world would be perfect without Satan)

Quran says "And (remember) when We said to the angels: ‘Prostrate yourselves unto Adam.’ So they prostrated themselves except ‘Iblis’ (Satan). He was one of the jinn; he disobeyed the command of his Lord" (Quran, Al-Kahf: 50).


e) Why was Satan held accountable for disobeying a command that was clearly not meant for him? ("We said to the ANGELS" and Satan is  a jinn)

d) It is accepted by all muslims that Quran rejects the concept of original sin.My question is why did Adam and Eve get the privilege to be created in Heaven but we have to suffer in this unperfect world? Why did Allah condemn all the children of Adam and Eve to live on Earth while creating Adam and Eve themselves in Paradise?

3)Life according to Quran.
 According to many verses in Quran life is a test.If that is true:
a) Why are some people chosen to skip this test by dying too young or dying in the womb or being mentally unable to "take he test" and still  get the same reward like the people who "won" the test?

b)On a recent post by Joseph Islam on Facebook he wrote that life is precious.How can life be precious if all it can really offer you is a chance to make big mistakes and get a painful punishment for it? Wouldn't it be better if we never lived at all since if we don't live there is no test and 0 chance of painful punishment but a lot  of chances to get Paradise as mentioned in the question above?

b)If a man killed all the children of the world  wouldn't that in fact be a good thin cause salvation would be guaranteed  for billions of souls since all of them would stand sinless on judgment day? No Prophet has been able to guarantee salvation this man would probably be the greatest hero of all times...that is IF what you believe is true am I correct?

d) What is the value  of procreating of having children if such thing will ultimately result in damnation of many souls in torture perhaps for all eternity(depending on your interpretation of Quran"?


That's it for now I have so many other question but that is for a later time. Thank you for your time in answering me . God bless you all 

[Seraphina]

Alaikum wa salam brother Donald,
I'm so glad you joined the forum for two reasons Firstly, because I get where you're coming from, I've been there before, I've had similar questions to yours ever since my logic entered into usage . What's worse, I was rounded by people who blamed God for everything that happened to them, and everything that happened in any part of the world. There has been many confusion in religious doctrines, that it has become nearly impossible to find the truth, at least for me, until I found brother Joseph and the other brothers and sisters of this forum, that is my family in faith. I'm sure it will be like that for you as well.
Secondly, There are things that our logic can't understand yet, since they have to be seen and lived to be clear (for example the descriptions about hereafter), God has described them up in detail up to a certain point. And there are things that can be understood and accepted even with our fallible logic, and God has given us all of their answers in the Quran. Brother Joseph has studied the Holy Scriptures for a long time, and has helped many others like you and I understand it better and put it into practice For your info: he doesn't reject hadith in toto (neither of us do), we just want them examined in the light of Quran. However, I would advice you to be patient, don't expect to take all of your answers immediately. These are things that need some time, some effort, and some good will, in order to be understood and accepted correctly. But most important, approach with a pure heart, and with a prejudice-free mind. Set yourself free from all of the doctrines you've been taught. You will see that 'slowly but surely' you will get all the answers you (like many others) are looking for. 
Sincerely from a sister in faith,
Seraphina

[Donald Hysa]

I see where you are coming from but  the abrahamic God has nothing that human mind cant understand my appoligies if I missundertood you guys and thought you were hadith rejectors

[Hamzeh]

Peace be with you Br. Donald Hysa

If I may say a few things myself as well.

Whether a person rejects hadith or does not reject hadith. That is not whats the matter of the Quran. Hadith are reports claimed to be the narrations or the speeches of the prophet Muhammad. The problem lies is where people take them as Gods commands and Laws and Judgement.

It may be very well that some hadith that has reached us today from what ever division of Islam is the sayings of the prophet Muhammad. After all he was a human being who spoke and lived a life and tried to teach his people what was revealed to him. He was inspired with knowledge and wisdom. I find also many people today God has gifted them and blessed with intelligence and wisdom. They for a religious reason might be trying to teach people what they been gifted with. Now that doesn't mean that you even have to take anything from all them. Its just checking to see your answers. Or verifying what your reading is right. a math question can be verified with other peoples results. however its either right or you need help because you lack the intelligence. but it has to make sense at the end.

And some are straight outright false and never been said by him. Either way they are not deemed to be religiously connected with the Quran and what it has to say. They are not in connection.

The Book that claims to be from God is the Quran. Whats up for scrutiny in the Quran alone. The Quran is not responsible for the things that happened after it was delivered. It claims to be a book that is a explanation of all things and nothing omitted for religious guidance. It is not a dictionary or a science book. It is a guidance in this life to avoid the punishment of the next world. Its also a glad tiding for the paradise promised by the author of the Quran, God.

The questions that you asked i feel like if you keep an open mind you will have the answers to them all in due time God Willing. Its a matter of taking the best answers and then soon you will feel that you are certain. Although to answer questions like you have posted, you would want a relevant answer from the Quran. And you need one who is very familiar with it.

I do suggest you take as much as time as you have to read the articles in this website. I will suggest a few articles to start with that I think can possibly answer at least some of the questions you have kindly asked.

Also see the related topics at the end of some articles. Also you can search certain concepts or verses and sometimes you might find some info or opinions of the issue by using this link http://quransmessage.com/articles/search%20FM2.htm


Understanding Trials— Why Me?
http://quransmessage.com/articles/understanding%20trials%20FM3.htm

Trust to the Heavens, Earth, and Mountains
http://quransmessage.com/forum/index.php?topic=85.0

Adam And Jannah (heaven)
http://quransmessage.com/articles/adam%20and%20jannah%20FM3.htm

Suffering & Adversity
http://quransmessage.com/articles/suffering%20FM3.htm

A Purpose to Creation - A Power Of Truth
http://quransmessage.com/articles/creation%20purpose%20FM3.htm

Aliens
http://quransmessage.com/articles/do%20aliens%20exist%20FM3.htm

There is also an article about when Moses when he was walking with a servant of God and was told to be patient. And the Questions he asked. Maybe someone can point to that one as well.

At the end we all will die. Justice will not be availed in this world for a lot of us. Thats what the Judgement Day is for. Why some die young and some live to see a old age? God only knows what will happen if a human was granted a 1000 years more. But what God tells us is not an iota of injustice will happen. And who knows how the young will be judged only God. How they would be if they got older

Peace and Blessings brother

[Hamzeh]

Peace Donald

I also thought I would comment somewhat on your statement in #1b.

When you look at every other things other than humans, they all have a task and mission to do simply by instinct. They are programmed in doing what He wills. They don't complain, they don't think about life and death and there purpose. They all simply worship God by doing what they do by the way God created them to be. It is only the human race that has the ability to use his own volition or to some extent.  And it could be that God created humans also to simply worship Him without all this conscience and we could be just like animals and do what God has just created us to be as he wills. But it could be possible that humans who wanted to take on a more of a responsibility. After all we all took a trust/covenant with God. You might say you can't remember, but thats just it, if you can then it won't be a test anymore. Its simply a reminder to fulfil what we did. The reminder is a mercy from the Lord so we don't have excuses.

When a person comes to believe in the veracity of Gods revelations, one might be doing prayers, fasting, giving charity, etc for the benefit of his own soul. For the transgressions and sins that the soul has done. And showing belief in his commands. Its to purify the soul and hope that the soul can be forgiven for the wrong that it has done.

For without the guidance of the Lord we would all be doomed. It could also be for that purpose also that the Angels made the statement of humans causing bloodshed and mischief on the earth. For they realize that a soul who is given volition without God guiding him he is destined to destruction. So from His mercy He reminds us and does not want us to fall in error. So He sends us signs. And doing what he prescribed we hope for his forgiveness. For He is not need of anything, free of all wants. He can create anything He wills. Anything that will worship Him all the time without refusing.

I hope you have blissful journey towards yours question God willing. God is not afraid of questions and what the mind thinks. The Quran has provided man with the answers about what man doubts. Its simply for any human, be a labourer, a scientist, a layman, etc. It will ease the burdens off the shoulders and gives him the assurance of the next life.

22:5 O mankind! if ye have a doubt about the Resurrection, (consider) that We created you out of dust, then out of sperm, then out of a leech-like clot, then out of a morsel of flesh, partly formed and partly unformed, in order that We may manifest (our power) to you; and We cause whom We will to rest in the wombs for an appointed term, then do We bring you out as babes, then (foster you) that ye may reach your age of full strength; and some of you are called to die, and some are sent back to the feeblest old age, so that they know nothing after having known (much), and (further), thou seest the earth barren and lifeless, but when We pour down rain on it, it is stirred (to life), it swells, and it puts forth every kind of beautiful growth (in pairs).

To me this verse is telling me " I know what your thinking, you never seen the next world. No one has ever come from there to tell you about it. But do you not think about this life that you have. The one you are witnessing with your very own eyes. Don't you see what happened to yourself. From the time before you were even created to the time your present. Do you not see how you were fashioned and taken care of to the finest detail. And don't you witness the trees and fruits all around you. Don't you see how ever year they go dead, and then they are brought back to life with every kind of generous, beautiful, wholesome fruits. You see this all the time. So don't be in doubt."

Peace

[Donald Hysa]

Thanks for your comment Hamzeh 
 When it comes to people animals and people a lot of  actions and instincts can be explained by evolution. Its true that they don't think or   complain but  they set tasks or duties to themselves like hunting feeding  mating that cause they have evolved to do so and most of their actions are learned not programmed.There is no evidence that they "worship" any God. Quite the opposite the fact that workers have to clean the Kabba from bird feces often should be enough evidence for you that they are not aware of any God.And your argument about the covenant with God just seems very illogical.Imagine if you  give your son a delicious cake but you tell him he can only eat the cake after you get back to him in a few hours and you make him promise he wont eat the cake til you get back. But then somehow you make your son forget his promise and he eats your cake before you go back to him? What would you do punish your son for breaking a promise you made him forget he made? No this is plain nonsense think about it.

There is  no evidence no sign anybody is getting guidance from God. Only we can guide ourselves by searching for knowledge through science and that is has indeed proven to be very beneficial for us. The holy scriptures have not increased mankind's knowledge  about the reality around them for the simple reason that faith is not knowledge.The main reason why billions of people  hate each other today is cause of religion the best tool used for oppression today is religion the main reason for persecuting people today is different religious beliefs.Under the light of all these facts what makes you still think religion is guidance from God?

Again I have to tell you the angel was wrong cause there would be no mischief or bloodshed on Earth without Satan so he is the real spreader of corruption and mischief.

About the verse 22.5 you say//To me this verse is telling me " I know what your thinking, you never seen the next world. No one has ever come from there to tell you about it. But do you not think about this life that you have. The one you are witnessing with your very own eyes. Don't you see what happened to yourself. From the time before you were even created to the time your present. Do you not see how you were fashioned and taken care of to the finest detail. And don't you witness the trees and fruits all around you. Don't you see how ever year they go dead, and then they are brought back to life with every kind of generous, beautiful, wholesome fruits. You see this all the time. So don't be in doubt."

I can't understand how that proves anything.Imagine if I claimed to be God and I can take you to heaven if you gave me 1 million dollars and you of course would doubt that then I would say" I know what your thinking, you never seen the next world. No one has ever come from there to tell you about it. But do you not think about this life that you have. The one you are witnessing with your very own eyes. Don't you see what happened to yourself. From the time before you were even created to the time your present. Do you not see how you were fashioned and taken care of to the finest detail. And don't you witness the trees and fruits all around you. Don't you see how ever year they go dead, and then they are brought back to life with every kind of generous, beautiful, wholesome fruits. You see this all the time. So don't be in doubt."
Would that prove to you I am God? Of course not

[Donald Hysa]

I am also gonna give some short replies to some of your links
1.Understanding Trials why ME
My question was about people who get  tested and  win the tests and get rewarded while other people like dead children never get tested and still get the same reward.This article does not address that.About this you also say something I can't quite understand but seems to be implying that God will judge the young one for what that they would have done if they had lived am i correct?

2.Trust to the Heaven  Earth and Mountains
About this verse "We have offered the responsibility (freedom of choice) to the heavens and the earth, and the mountains, but they refused to bear it, and were afraid of it. But the human being accepted it; he was transgressing, ignorant." 33:72  Joseph Islam gives this answer" Salamun Alaikum,


With regards 33:72, a trust 'amana' carries a huge amount of responsibility as it has inherent power to exercise authority. This trust is also linked in my opinion to man's vicegerancy on Earth (2:30). Man was given 'responsibilities' on Earth and volition to exercise analogous to a caretaker. He has also been expected to recognise his Creator and to worship Him. This is possibly what prompted the question posed by the angels "Will you place in it one that will spread corruption and will shed blood while we glorify You with Your praises and we sanctify You?" (2:30)

However, other creations of God have also been mentioned with no such power of volition or vicegerancy such as other celestial objects, sun, moon, other stars etc (i.e. Heavens) along with the earth and the mountains which simply run their course. The hypothetical is used 'but they refused' to signify that God may have offered His other creation such power of authority but their response in the negation clearly implies that such creation were not ready to accept such a responsibility. This hypothetical is also picked up in verse 59:21 "Had We sent down this Quran on a mountain, verily, you would have seen it humble itself and cleave asunder for fear of God"

This clearly implies man accepted such a responsibility based on volition. This also goes back to the heart of the primordial contract in verse 7:172, where we were asked at the point when we were brought forth from our parents, '"Am I not your Lord (who cherishes and sustains you)?"- They said: "Yes! We do testify!" (This), less you should say on the Day of Judgment: "Of this we were never mindful"

Man being foolish / ignorant (jahil) or unjust (zalim) signifies that to take on such authoritative responsibilities demands a huge undertaking and answerability which man may not have fully considered and in that sense may have also remained unjust to himself. However God's mercy would see continuous guidance in the form of Prophets and messengers to be sent to mankind to keep them in obeisance to God's laws (7:35)

[man = mankind / humans]

I hope this helps.

Your brother,
Joseph."



Let me see if I understood this correctly God offered  non-living objects like the sun earth and mountains freedom of choice(responsibility) but somehow even though they are not alive and not self-aware they rejected this offer  while man accepted the responsibility of free will with his own free will ? Is that correct? Did man have free will when he chose to accept this responsibility?


Adam and Eve in Heaven.
 This article argues that Jannah is not referring to islamic Paradise in this case despite  the fact it is used to refer to paradise in every other verse.I can't decide what to think about that yet.

Suffering & Adversity
This does not address  any of points I presented however I would like to address  something in this article 004.078-79
"Wherever you are, death will find you out, even if ye are in towers built up strong and high!" If some good befalls them, they say, "This is from God"; but if evil, they say, "This is from thee" (O Prophet). Say: "All things are from God." But what has come to these people, that they fail to understand a single fact?  "Whatever good, (O man!) happens to you, is from God; but whatever evil happens to you, is from thy (own) soul and We have sent thee as a messenger to (instruct) mankind. And enough is God for a witness"  Don't you ever wonder what kind of evil some children did to deserve evil things like cancer?
And still it comes down to " We can't understand God's wider scheme"

The Purpose of Humanity A power of Truth

I already explained that if God has no needs then our existence is unncessary how can  we serve any purpose if we are not needed? 

I am  very patient  have no doubt about that but til I get answers I can't jump to conclusions like '' Greeat  i have found God''



 

[good logic]

Greetings Donald Hysa.

You said:

I am  very patient  have no doubt about that but til I get answers I can't jump to conclusions like '' Greeat  i have found God''


Well brother, you may have to wait a long time,until GOD wills?

Let me explain this further,only GOD can give you your answers because He alone explains His scripture. Further more, scripture guides or misguides!!!! According to our sincerity or lack of it?

You see everyone is accountable individually at GOD. No one is responsible for the other.If we give you your answers,how do you know it is the truth? How can you possibly check our answers? Or are you expecting us to have a " Scientific proof"for each answer?

That in itself is a good enough reason for you to go and study the Qoran with honesty and sincerity.

Remember no one is your guardian or leader or guide. You have the eyes,ears and brain and you are responsible for their use!

All we can do is give you our opinion/understanding,then you are going to have to check it and find out for yourself.

Here is my understanding:

Qoran has no contradictions. Qoran is taught by GOD Alone.
 Qoran says GOD has no need of any one. All creations depend and need the creator. We serve/worship Him for our own need/ benefit.
 GOD created everything ,yes indeed! everything. But GOD is Unique, none are like Him, He is the origin, the first and the last therefore cannot be created, just always existed.

All your points are misunderstandings and wrong interpretations of GOD s words.

You need some time to start again studying Qoran to find out for yourself what GOD is really saying, then perhaps we can converse in the future about your new findings.
I hope you succeed, GOD willing.
GOD bless you.
Peace.

[ahmad]

Dear Donald Hysa,
Welcome to the Forum 
Below I've shared my thoughts on some of your questions.

1. God and the purpose of existence
a) In many verses God(Allah) is described as the creator of all things.No matter what we are expected to understand from this statement it is technically false. How can this be true if there is at least one thing God has never created,Himself?

According to the Quran God always existed. (This can also be deduced rationally)

112: 1-3
Say, "He is Allah, [who is] One, (1) Allah, the Eternal Refuge. (2) He neither begets nor is born, (3) Nor is there to Him any equivalent." (4)
 

b) On the purpose of creation Quran says God created us to worship him. But Quran also says  God has no needs. To put it shortly if God has no need for us that means our existence is completely  unnecessary. So how can our existence serve any purpose if it is unnecessary since purpose implies necessity?

No, it just means that God has no needs. We were not created because God needs us but because of God's will. And the will of god is not something that can be questioned.

[21:23]
He is not questioned about what He does, but they will be questioned.

2. Creation of Man
Quran says:`Behold,' your Lord said to the angels: `I will create a khalifah (vicegerent) on earth.' They said: `Will You place therein one who will make mischief therein and shed blood? While we do celebrate Your praises (chant gratitude) and glorify Your holy (name)?' He said: `I know what you know not.' (Surah 2 Al Baqarah: 30)

a) Do angles have free will since they are able to question God?

The angels asking God the question must have been given some sort of freedom. However, I am unsure if this can said about all angels.

b) Do angels know the future since he predicts what humanity will do on Earth?

There's an opinion that the angels knew this not because they can see into the future but because they have seen similar creatures before the creation of humans do the same thing. However, I think that It won't matter that much where the angels got this information.

c) If angels know the future how could this angel be so wrong about humanity since  the actual creature that causes mischief and bloodshed on Earth is Satan(According to Quran  all wrong  things happen cause people disobey God and people disobey God cause of Satan meaning the world would be perfect without Satan)

Satan is not the only cause. The tendency to be good or evil is within each soul.
[91:7]
And [by] the soul and He who proportioned it
[91:8]
And inspired it [with discernment of] its wickedness and its righteousness,
[91:9]
He has succeeded who purifies it,
[91:10]
And he has failed who instills it [with corruption].


3)Life according to Quran.

According to many verses in Quran life is a test.If that is true:
a) Why are some people chosen to skip this test by dying too young or dying in the womb or being mentally unable to "take he test" and still  get the same reward like the people who "won" the test?

[18:49]
And the record [of deeds] will be placed [open], and you will see the criminals fearful of that within it, and they will say, "Oh, woe to us! What is this book that leaves nothing small or great except that it has enumerated it?" And they will find what they did present [before them]. And your Lord does injustice to no one.

I think its a questionable assertion you made here

and still  get the same reward like the people who "won" the test?

because that knowledge is with God not us. Nevertheless, the general rule is that God does injustice to no one, everyone will be judged according to his/her circumstances.


Hope this helps
peace.



Saheeh International translation*

[Donald Hysa]

Greetings Good logic thank you for your comment
You say in your comment " You see everyone is accountable individually at GOD. No one is responsible for the other.If we give you your answers,how do you know it is the truth? How can you possibly check our answers? Or are you expecting us to have a " Scientific proof"for each answer?" I am not the kind of man who is afraid of afterlife  so i am not in a rush to find the right answers very quickly.If you give me some answers I will know if if is the truth or not from the arguments and evidence you present.It dossn't have to be " scientific  evidence" just some simple facts from reality that proof your theory is correct.For example your theory is that islam is the right guide that brings inner peace to men.If that was true then muslim majority countries would be more peaceful and far more guided in terms of justice and standart of living than non muslim countries? Can you prove to me that is the state of muslim countries today? That is how I check your answers I simply  observe facts of reality.Reality never lies.
Its not fair from you to suggest that I may lack sincerity cause I   have not reached  in the same conclusion as you on the Quran.Would it be fair for you if a buddhist said to you" If you don't think buddhism is the only way to Nirvana you lack sincerity"?

You go on and say:"Qoran has no contradictions. Qoran is taught by GOD Alone.
 Qoran says GOD has no need of any one. All creations depend and need the creator. We serve/worship Him for our own need/ benefit.
 GOD created everything ,yes indeed! everything. But GOD is Unique, none are like Him, He is the origin, the first and the last therefore cannot be created, just always existed."
This is more of an emotional response than  a real understanding.Even if Quran did have contradictions you would never accept the as contradictions.You would always come up with some  word game to convince yourself more than others that Quran doesn't have contradictions.Example: I am assuming that as a muslim you think the Bible is also the word of God  but has been changed and now has contradictions.Is it easy to convince a christian that the Bible has contradictions? No its very hard cause like you they would never accept the contradictions as contradictions they would just belive its something only God can understand.

Why does God has so many human attributes like anger, mercy, love,  compassion , servants (or slaves) judgment etc if he is so unique and no one is like him ? Could it be that is cause humans shape him in their own image?

Imagine if we were in medieval times and you asked me "Who created the world" and my answer was:This world is the Origin The First and the Last world therefore it cannot be created,just always existed" would you be satisfied by that answer?  Would it make sense to you?

Finally I  have to say if a book claims to be the word of God that is an extraordinary  claim that needs extraordinary evidence to back it up and some poetic words  asking you to have faith faith and more faith and that will never count as extraordinary evidence.If something is real like the sun the Earth mountain lakes it does not need faith for you to believe they are  real you can just see they are real and the stars and the universe everything.The only thing that would need faith for people to believe in it is a lie cause a lie can never prove itself to be real to be true.

God bless you too brother    Peace

[Donald Hysa]

Thanks for replying and directly answering some of my questions Ahmad I will share my opinion about them when I have the time. PEACE

[Hamzeh]

Peace be with you Donald

I wanted to comment on a statement you made

"Imagine if we were in medieval times and you asked me "Who created the world" and my answer was:This world is the Origin The First and the Last world therefore it cannot be created,just always existed" would you be satisfied by that answer?  Would it make sense to you?"

My answer to this is also prove it. How would you know that this world was always here. And it will always be here. Whats important is that its us humans who are making things up and saying the world has been here. Its not the world who told us hey look we have been here all along. Believe this. Its we came into an existing world thats was there. It is we that go on curious and investigating, when the answer has been there all along from the beginning of time. Pondering over the world is not something wrong. its actually good. But when truth reaches a person then accept what is best. I always think the exact truth of this universe will be only with God alone. We can strive to always come closer and closer. But to take the best way possible. It is God who sent revelations to humans and signs to believe in him.

Regarding Christians saying there is no contradictions in the Bible is possible. Even the Quran people can change it meanings by inserting inaccurate and wrong terminology. Allegorical meanings and so on. One thing I keep in mind is any concept that humans derive from the Quran cannot have any tension on any other verses and have to have explicit meanings. Something that Joseph once wrote. And I try to keep that in mind.

The Bible should be also used the same way and the Torah. After all they are all the same Religion.

And you can't compare whats going on in muslim lands to whats the truth.

If law an judgement was left in the hands of people only, and no one ever believed in the next world and judgement day, don't you think there will be so many people trying to live this world to the fullest. I can only see complete chaos. It is not religion that caused chaos. Its first lack of knowledge, bling following, and arrogance. Many causes to why people act this way.

When you read the Quran you realize its because of transgression, and crime, and oppressing humanity is what was happening before God sent his signs to warn people.

I'm not against the questions you ask. But I think you should read as much as you can from this site. As many articles as you can and see some debates. And see what you can form up in your mind about the Quran book.

Also if your interested I asked a few questions myself a couple days ago. You will realize the consistency of the one same religion ever since.
Here is the article  "Does each people judge by what they have been given?"
Just look it up on the forum if you like

Peace bro

[good logic]

Greetings Donald Hysa.

Thank you for your answers to my post.

Please allow me to clarify that I am never personal towards anyone. I speak in general. I have not implied whether you are sincere or not. I do not know the inner thoughts of anyone. Please take our conversation as constructive.

Also I am not a "traditional Muslim", I am a believer.I follow the one and only religion "True Islam" / total loyalty and submission to the "One and only Creator" and His system.
 "True Islam" has been in existence since the first human walked this earth. "True Islam" was/is the only true religion-there is/are no other religions!- "True Islam"- Submission to the Creator-the religion of Noah,Abraham, Moses ,Jesus, Mohammed and all the messengers and believers that walked this earth.

I also believe in all the scriptures- GOD s words-and all the prophets/messengers and  messengers of GOD .I make no distinction between any of them. They all brought the same "UNIVERSAL MESSAGE":Repent and submit to the Creator, Serve/worship GOD Alone, Do good deeds and avoid IDOLATRY!. Also believe in the hereafter- i,e accountability for our own choices/decisions/works-.

Finally, Qoran is indeed an "extraordinary book". This generation and future generations are very lucky to witness a miracle.It is " Mathematically proven to be beyond  human composition. A revelation from the Lord of the Universe.Check it out?

However ,those who want to believe in things they can only"see", have that choice also.Like "proofs" are for believers.

GOD has made it clear this life will remain a "trial" for humans until the last one walks this earth. Even if  a Qoran moves mountains or makes the dead speak or...Some will still not believe.

GOD bless you brother.
Peace.