Is Paradise eternal for those in it?

[deleted]

With your evidences.

[Truth Seeker]

Salaam,

This article may help although the topic is about eternal punishment,
it has referenced verses in the Quran that deals with paradise and it's eternity.

http://quransmessage.com/articles/is%20the%20punishment%20of%20hell%20eternal%20FM3.htm

[deleted]

What do you think the first part of 6:160 means:

 مَنْ جَاءَ بِالْحَسَنَةِ فَلَهُ عَشْرُ أَمْثَالِهَا

I mean what happens when we've been recompensed 10 times for our deeds of good?

[Hassan3000]

May peace be upon you

The article above has many points about how paradise is eternal for those in it as Truth Seeker has replied with, however the ayaa (6:160) does not challenge that point of view. What I understood of that is whenever we do a good deed, it is as if we did it 10 times. For example if we help a poor person, God will record it as if we have helped a poor person 10 times.

Again that is what I understood of that ayaa.

[deleted]

سَلَامٌ عَلَيْكُمْ,

It states though 'يجزى' in the second part - َمَنْ جَاءَ بِالسَّيِّئَةِ فَلَا يُجْزَى إِلَّا مِثْلَهَا -, which is from the verb "to recompense", isn't it? Or do you think the 'يجزى' is just for the second part of 6:160? In that I mean, do you think the statement "َنْ جَاءَ بِالْحَسَنَةِ فَلَهُ عَشْرُ أَمْثَالِهَا وَمَنْ جَاءَ بِالسَّيِّئَةِ فَلَا يُجْزَى إِلَّا مِثْلَهَا" means that we're just recompensed for our deeds which weren't done in good?

[Hassan3000]

May peace be upon you

Well we are going to be recompensed for the bad deeds, the meaning of recompense being "to pay or give compensation for; make restitution or requital for (damage, injury, or the like)"[1] so yes the unjust people are going to be recompensed with the evil they have done.

As for the good deeds, you need them to enter paradise, when you're in paradise you are going to have whatever you desire, whatever that you want (50:35). However thats not the case for hell, you will be punished based on how much of bad deeds you have done (046.019) (010.027) (078.024-26) (006:132) (006:160) as stated in the article written by brother Joseph as well.

[1] - http://www.dictionary.com/browse/recompense

[deleted]

As for Joes perspective;

I don't think he is right in how he states that whenever a word is used to describe a recompense (the punishment of our god) you can state "here it doesn't mean eternal", then when used to describe another recompense you can state "here it does mean eternal". I think even if you do think the word mean 'eternal', then you can be of the persecutive he is that "the punishment mightn't be eternal". Such as Joe demonstrates with his description of the likes of 11:106 to 107 as justification of his perspective, that god might will them out, which is also stated in 11:108. However Joe justifies his perspective with the statement that 11:108 also includes "عَطَاءً غَيْرَ مَجْذُوذٍ" (a bestowal [that] isn't interrupted). So I think that the word doesn't have to mean else than 'eternal', since 11:106, to 108 seem to override the statement that the 'punishment is eternal'.

Also, today, the word doesn't ever even mean "eternal". 

His perspective of the words of 'ح ق ب' I am of too.

[deleted]

So Hassan, you state that once you've been recompensed for your deeds ungood, then your recompense is done, but when you've been recompensed for you deeds good, your recompense isn't done?

[Hassan3000]

No thats not what I stated, the word recompensed itself doesn't mean recompensing for good, the sentence "I will recompense you for the amazing thing you have done for me!" doesn't make sense. You compensate a bad thing, not a good thing. And also the word recompensed is not even used for good deeds, God doesn't say you will be recompensed for your good deed. Yes if it was recompensed, we couldn't be recompensed by an infinite reward for a finite good deed, just like how we cant be recompensed by an infinite punishment for a infinite bad deed. The word recompense is not used in regards to paradise, its used in regards to hell.

[deleted]

What? That is what the word means, in English (even on that which you provided it states this), as well as in Arabic. God even uses the word in that he states he "recompenses the doers of good" in 6:84, 12:22, 28:14, and throughout.

[deleted]

Also is there evidence someone could then be admitted into Paradise once their recompense of a punishment is done with?

[deleted]

And peace be upon you too, Hassan.   

[Hassan3000]

Hell not being eternal, does not mean that after a person is done with the punishment he will be entered into paradise. This issue is silent in the Quran. And as for the word recompenses, based on translations I concluded that, and on that I am not qualified to say what means recompense or what means reward them, as I do not know arabic, but the link below may help .

http://www.almaany.com/en/dict/ar-en/يجزي/

[deleted]

What about 7:40? Could "يَلِجَ الْجَمَلُ فِي سَمِّ الْخِيَاطِ" happen?

[Hassan3000]

I am sorry, i meant to say that what happens to souls that are done with the punishment is not mentioned, brother Joseph wrote this about this issue that i also wanted to share

As-salam alaykum

From my humble perspective, it is noteworthy that just because the punishment in hell may not be eternal, this does not imply that after the punishment is complete, one will be granted open access to the upper echelons of felicity / heaven.

Hell will INDEED be the abode of the sinners and they will indeed taste this punishment. but it is the 'EXTENT / DURATION' that is under discussion from a Quran’s perspective, which presents the concept of ‘proportionality’ with the gravity of one's ill-deeds (Proportionate punishment). Hence there is no contradiction with verses such as 7:40.

As to what happens to the soul after the punishment is completed (regardless of intensity / severity or duration), this is not expounded upon by the Quran which remains wholly silent on this matter.

Hence, one's focus is to remain on the accountability of one's soul, seeking God's good favour and not His wrath. Arguably, even the thought of a day of God’s wrath brings one down on to their quivering knees.

Furthermore, it is important to remember that from a Quran's perspective, there are numerous ranks in heaven depending on one's extent of righteousness as there are ranks within hell.

However, it also remains clear from the Quran that not everyone will receive the same intensity (or arguable duration) of punishment as this will wholly be dependant on the extent of the sinner’s ill-deeds.

Here is the Quranic evidence:

"Except boiling / scalding water and a paralysing cold. REQUITAL PROPORTIONED (* jaza'an wifaqan) (to their evil deeds)*" 78:25-26

* jaza'an wifaqan - An appropriate recompense / proportional punishment

“But those who have earned evil WILL HAVE A REWARD OF THE LIKE OF THE EVIL (bimith’liha)*...” 10:27
* i.e. PROPORTIONAL PUNISHMENT

"Indeed the hypocrites will be in the lowest depths of the Fire (al-darki'l-asfali min-al-nar*): no helper will you find for them" 4.145
* al-darki'l-asfali min-al-nar - This implies ranks and depths / severity of punishments. i.e. PROPORTIONAL PUNISHMENT

"...Cause Pharaoh's folk to enter the most severest chastisement (ashaddal-adhab)!"" 40:46
* ashaddal-adhab - This implies that there exists a range of severity for punishment in the hellfire.

As noted above, Pharaoh and his folk will receive the most dire / severe of God's punishment. This also implies that not every sinner will receive the same punishment. It is only the most wicked, that will endure the severest of God's punishments.

092.014
“Therefore have I warned you of the flaming fire”

092.015
“Which only the MOST WRETCHED (Arabic: Ashqa) must endure”

Furthermore, from a Quran's perspective, 'fire' is not the only type of punishment for the sinner in Hell. This is often a very common, but restrictive interpretation in Muslim thought.

'Ghassaq' in verse 78:25 in the context of punishment also implies extreme coldness or a paralysing cold whereby one 'burns' by reason of its intense dark bitter coldness. (Except boiling water and a paralysing cold...78-25) This interpretation is not only given weight by lexicons but more importantly by the Quran, where one notes the two types of torments in verse 38:57 where boiling fluid (hamim) is contrasted with 'ghassaq' and is arguably elucidated as two extreme forms of punishment (i.e. in pairs or of two extreme kinds ) - azwajun) in verse 38:58.

038.057
"This is so! Then let them taste it, boiling/ scalding fluid and a paralysing cold"

038.058
"And other of its type IN PAIRS (azwajun) (the two extremes)!"

The Quran expounds different types of punishments.

The paralysing cold (78.25), scorching fire and scolding water and shade of black smoke (56.43) burning till it changes the colour and skins of man (74.29) and every time their skin is roasted it will be recreated (4.56), They will eat from the deadly tree of Zuqqum with its food like the heads of devils (37.62-68) and like molten brass will boil in their bellies like boiling scolding water (44.43-46) and it will cut up their bowels to pieces (47.15). They will also drink boiling water because of the intensity of their thirst like that of camels (56.55), from a boiling spring (88.5) and eat food of bitter thorns that neither nourishes nor avails against hunger (88.6-7). The fuel of fire is men and stones (66.6) and their garments are of melted copper and their faces will be covered in fire (14.49-50).

However, as dire and devastating as these warnings are (May God have mercy on our souls), one must never lose sight of the fact that the Quran also makes it clear that 'punishment' remains 'PROPORTIONAL' and that God remains Most Just.

Thus it can be asked - Is an endless punishment befitting for a finite crime during life? The Quran does appear to suggest that the concept of proportionality will apply and that duration may not be infinite as the article argues.

I hope that clarifies, God willing.
Joseph