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Offline Seraphina

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Jinn and hell
« on: November 12, 2016, 02:16:49 AM »
Salam to everyone,
I had a question for brother Joseph (and all of you), asked to me by another brother that wants to know better. If Jinn are created of fire and hell is also a place of fire, how can they be punished in hell? Bcs both people and jinn who go after Iblis will go to hell. Jinns are creatures of fire, so how can fire torment them?

May Allah protect you always :)
Your sister Seraphina
"Say:"O my slaves who have transgressed against their souls! Despair not of the Mercy of Allah: for Allah forgives all sins: for He is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful."

Offline Duster

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Re: Jinn and hell
« Reply #1 on: November 12, 2016, 02:38:29 AM »
Shalom / peace Seraphina ....

The Quran doesn't always say that hell is made of fire......Borther Joseph also says the following and backs it up with the verses ...

Quote
The Quran at many places alludes to the ‘abode of the sinners’ as a multifaceted place (15.43-44) which is geared to fit the numerous levels of crimes of the sinners. It is not a place where every sinner will be given the same punishment or necessarily of hell-fire.

078.024-26
“Therein taste they neither coolness nor (any) drink. Save boiling water and a paralysing cold: reward proportioned (to their evil deeds)”


Quote
The paralysing cold (78.25)


http://quransmessage.com/articles/is%20the%20punishment%20of%20hell%20eternal%20FM3.htm

>>>Also brother Joseph says that the Jinn are not made of fire as we understand it necessarily ...

Quote
Whereas the initial creation of man is described in terms of sounding clay (salsalin), black mud (ham'in) altered (masnun) (15:26) and thereafter, extract fluid (semen) 32:8, the Quran describes the creation of the Jinn from 'nare-sumun' (15:27) and 'mariji-min nar' (55:15).

Contrary to popular belief, the composition elements of the Jinn do not necessarily allude to a literal understanding of fire. There is indeed some semblance of fire (nar), but it is primarily a description used by the Quran to best describe to a 7th century Arab audience, a substance which they may not be familiar with.
 
'Sumun' (15:27) gives the reader a sense of ferocity, intensity and 'marij' (55:15) the implication of something which retains an unsteady composition, though flowing freely yet confused and somewhat impaired. In the context of fire, it is often interpreted as smokeless fire, a flame mixed with the black substance of fire, blast of hot, burning or scorching wind.
 
Whatever interpretation is accepted, the Quran clearly acknowledges that this is not the same substance by which humankind was created (15:26).

THE JINN - http://quransmessage.com/articles/jinn%20FM3.htm

The most important thing is that all recompense will be according to deeds ... so whatever you are made of ... the punishment will be appropriate for it ....


Offline Amira

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Re: Jinn and hell
« Reply #2 on: November 12, 2016, 10:58:54 AM »
Salam everyone :)

This question has been asked before and respectfully, it is irrelevant. In the Hereafter everyone will be a "new creation," so problems with fire and jinn will not apply.

"That is their recompense, because they rejected Our signs, and said, 'When we are reduced to bones and broken dust, should we really be raised up (to be) a new Creation?'" 17:98
“Narrated Buraydah ibn al-Hasib: I heard the Apostle of Allah say: In eloquence there is magic, in knowledge ignorance, and in poetry wisdom”

“Historically, what is or isn’t mainstream (in Islam) has always been a function of power, not of truth.” (Iyad El-Baghdadi, Arab Spring activist)

Offline Wakas

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Re: Jinn and hell
« Reply #3 on: November 13, 2016, 07:30:42 AM »
peace all,

78:25 "...and not any drink EXCEPT boiling water and ghassāqan"

The implication is that "ghassāqan" is a drink, hence probably why translators opt for "purulence".

Thus "paralysing cold" is a lesser likely fit.

Offline Joseph Islam

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Re: Jinn and hell
« Reply #4 on: November 13, 2016, 07:21:49 PM »
Dear Brother Wakas / all,

As-salamu alaykum

Just a quick note to elaborate on what brother Duster has kindly shared (Thanks Duster) and notwithstanding the wisdom shared by sister Amira in Reply #2 above.

The primary significance of the root word 'GH S Q' is darkness, particularly of night. This is well attested by the reputable lexicons and well inferred in the Quran.

  • 1 غَسَقَ , said of the night, aor. غَسِقَ , (S, O, K,) inf. n. غُسُوقٌ (O, K, * TA) and غَسْقٌ and غَسَقٌ and غَسَقَانٌ, (K,) It became dark; (S, O;) [1]

Its verbal noun derivative 'Ghasaqa' in verse 17:78 can be seen to refer to the prayers in the darkening depths of the night and in its noun form in verse 113:3 can be seen to refer to darkness again 'from the evil of the darkness when it gathers' (Surah Al-Falaq)
 
The nuance of 'intense cold' is also well supported by classical lexicons.

  • “or, as some say, the latter of the words has the first of these meanings: (O, TA:) and the former word signifies cold, (O,) or intensely cold, (TA,) that burns by reason of its coldness (O, TA) like the hot wind: (TA:) or, accord. to Lth, stinking: (O, TA:) the latter word is expl. by I'Ab and Ibn-Mes'ood as signifying intense cold: (TA:) or both signify cold and stinking. (S, O.) غَسِيقَاتٌ Intensely red; [applied to she-camels;] thus expl. by Skr as occurring in a verse of Sakhr [?] El-Hudhalee. (TA.) غَسَّاقٌ : see غَسَاقٌ: ― “
    [2]

The Quran appears to clearly infer that 'hell' will be a place of 'two extremes' or as it mentions in the Quran, 'pairs'. (zawj)

038.058
“And other (torment) of its type in pairs (Azwajun) (the two extremes)!”

This arguably goes to the heart of God's oath which infers 'duality' in much of His creation.

089.003
And the even and the odd (wa-shaf'i wal-watri)

Please see article [1] below which elaborates.

Therefore, I find quite strong support to interpret 'Ghassaq' in verses 38:57 and 78:25 to infer an intense, ferocious cold. This is in contrast to the intensity and ferocity of the hot burning.

I hope this helps / elaborates, God willing.

Regards,
Joseph


REFERENCES:

[1] LANE. E.W, Edward Lanes Lexicon, Williams and Norgate 1863; Librairie du Liban Beirut-Lebanon 1968, Volume 6, Page 2257
[2] Ibid., Page 2258


RELATED ARTICLE:

[1] THE INTENSITY OF GOD'S OATHS - THE EVEN AND THE ODD
http://quransmessage.com/articles/oath%20FM3.htm
'During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act' 
George Orwell

Offline Duster

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Re: Jinn and hell
« Reply #5 on: November 14, 2016, 06:45:52 PM »
Shalom / peace brother Joseph..... Thanks for this elaboration. Very informative  8)

Offline Seraphina

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Re: Jinn and hell
« Reply #6 on: November 15, 2016, 03:58:31 AM »
Thank you brother Joseph and the rest for taking time to reply. May Allah reward you :)
"Say:"O my slaves who have transgressed against their souls! Despair not of the Mercy of Allah: for Allah forgives all sins: for He is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful."