Author [EN] [PL] [ES] [PT] [IT] [DE] [FR] [NL] [TR] [SR] [AR] [RU] Topic: Sajjud to a Stone house in Makkah

Offline Rashid

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 12
    • View Profile
Sajjud to a Stone house in Makkah
« on: March 19, 2017, 01:23:32 AM »
Aslam alikum,

I would like to know isn't Prostrating physically to a Stone house in Makkah is worshiping it?

Offline Duster

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 427
    • View Profile
Re: Sajjud to a Stone house in Makkah
« Reply #1 on: March 19, 2017, 02:15:54 AM »
Aslam alikum,

I would like to know isn't Prostrating physically to a Stone house in Makkah is worshiping it?

Shalom / peace Rashid.....Who prostrates to a stone house in Makkah to worship it??? I only know of a practice where Muslims in Makkah praying to Allah and using the Kaaba simply as a direction.....

Offline good logic

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 519
    • View Profile
Re: Sajjud to a Stone house in Makkah
« Reply #2 on: March 19, 2017, 04:46:39 AM »
Peace Rashid.
If one prostrates in a mosque,with the "Mihrab" being in front of him,is he prostrating to the "Mihrab"?
Wherever you are prostrating on earth ,you are prostrating in a "physical" place. If your prostration is meant to GOD Alone from the heart,then there is no issue.
Also there has to be a place of focus and a direction of prostration for the believers.
GOD bless you.
Peace.
Total loyalty to GOD
In GOD i TRUST.
https://total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/?page_id=197

Offline Rashid

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 12
    • View Profile
Re: Sajjud to a Stone house in Makkah
« Reply #3 on: March 19, 2017, 05:05:54 AM »
Thank you for replies ,

Is there any article on this issue by bro Joseph?


Offline Joseph Islam

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1858
    • View Profile
    • The Quran and its Message
Re: Sajjud to a Stone house in Makkah
« Reply #4 on: March 21, 2017, 06:45:09 AM »
Dear Rashid,

Wa alaikum assalam

I understand from the above responses that answers have been shared with you by other members. Therefore, I am not sure whether a dedicated article is warranted to address the query.

The prostrations made towards the Ka'aba (which I assume you are kindly referring to) is not in obeisance or worship to the building. It is simply a direction of prayer. The worship /obeisance is performed to 'God'.

If the practice became such where the construct / building itself became the source / object of worship, then this would be in serious conflict to Quranic teachings and an idolatrous practice. It can be argued, that there are some that may blur the lines of reverence by their actions of overt / veneration towards the black stone and the Ka'aba, but this is not the position of central teachings of Islam. If it assists, I have discussed the Black stone in a separate article [1] below.

I hope this helps, God willing

Regards,
Joseph


REFERENCE:

[1] KISSING THE BLACK STONE - VENERATION OR AN IDOLATROUS PRACTICE?
http://quransmessage.com/articles/black%20stone%20FM3.htm
'During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act' 
George Orwell

Offline Wakas

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 555
    • View Profile
    • What does The Quran really say?
Re: Sajjud to a Stone house in Makkah
« Reply #5 on: March 24, 2017, 03:31:56 AM »
peace Rashid,

Firstly, the evidence for praying towards the cuboid called Kaabah is an interpretation of Quran, it is not explicit. I personally consider the evidence weak.

Secondly, if one takes it (i.e. one direction) as symbolic only and does not revere the cuboid called Kaabah in any way (e.g. would have no issue if it happened to be destroyed and rebuilt) then it lessens the risk of unwittingly committing idolatry.

Thirdly, if you study the history of pagan symbols in Arabia then the cuboid called Kaabah has many disturbing aspects.

Offline Wakas

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 555
    • View Profile
    • What does The Quran really say?
Re: Sajjud to a Stone house in Makkah
« Reply #6 on: April 10, 2017, 06:55:34 PM »
peace Rashid,

I read one of my older posts today, thought you might find the info interesting.


Thirdly, if you study the history of pagan symbols in Arabia then the cuboid called Kaabah has many disturbing aspects.

From: http://www.personal.utulsa.edu/~marc-carlson/history/arabic.txt

Quote
North Arabia
     Allah (al-Ilahah) "the God"
     "Daughters of Allah"
          Allat (Ilat)   "the Goddess"  Mother goddess, Goddess of
                         Taif (east of Mecca)
               Shams     Sun goddess
                    ash-Shiraq  "the Rising One" (Male?)
                    Muharriq    "the Burner" (Male?)
               Chabou, Ka'bu [Nabatean/Petra] Virgin Sun Mother of
                         Dhu-al-Shara/Dushares

          al-Uzza, Lady `Uzzay-an  "the Most Mighty." Planet Venus
               ash-Sa'ida     "The Blessed"
               Azizos    "the Powerful"  Morning star
               Monimos   "the Benificent"  Evening star
          Manah, Manat [Nabatean/Petra], Maniya   "Fate"

     .
.
     Dhu-al-Shara/Dhu-'sh-Shara/Dushares [Nabatean/Petra] {Block of
               black stone, 4x2} Dying god, son of the Earth
               mother.  Sacred day, Dec 25.

    .
.

     Hubal     Chief god of Ka'bah (Allah?)

Root entry in Lane's Lexicon for Kaf-Ayn-Ba (root of kaabah)
Quote: "a house or temple belonging to the tribe of Rabee'ah, who used to compass it, or perform circuits round it (as is done round the Kabbeh of Mekkeh)".

e.g. Book: Mecca and Eden: ritual, relics and territory in islam

p26

Quote
Such stones, especially black stones, were used as the main cult objects for the worship of other Arabian gods. According to Epiphanius the Nabatean God Dhu-shara (Dhu al Shara) was represented by something called "khaabou" which represented the deity. The Byzantine lexicographer Suidas reports that this was a black stone, roughly square, four feet high by two feet wide. Antoninus Placentinus relates that in Sinai the local Arabs had an idol which changed from snow white to pitch black..... Ibn al Kalbi relates that a number of Arab deities were represented by stones

Discussed in more detail here.

Quote
In the fourth century AD, Epiphanius, the bishop of Salamis, Cyprus wrote a letter describing cults such as the Nabataean cult and their celebration of the festival of the birth of Dhu Al-Shaara around the winter solstice. It is interesting that the birth celebrations culminated with bringing forth from beneath the earth the image of the male infant idol, which was carried seven times around the inner sanctuary of the pagan temple. [See Langdon, S., Semitic Mythology, The Mythology of All Races, Vol. V. Boston: Archaeological Institute of America, Marshall Jones Company, 1931, page 19.]

.
.
The celebration of the idol's birth around the winter solstice is also an indication of a relationship to the sun. The present cube structure of Dhu Al-Shaara in Saudi Arabia also has evidence of its pagan purpose. For example, the cube is aligned such that the Southeast corner is in the direction of the winter sunrise. Interestingly, in that corner lies the so-called Black Stone, which is the most revered object by sectarians who love to kiss and fondle it.