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Offline HOPE

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« on: March 17, 2018, 01:37:13 AM »
Salaam all,

3:59 the likeness of Isa is like the likeness of Adam.  they are not a creation of miraculous births but are created from earthly materials.  God says Kun/BE and FAYAKUNU and” it Was”  is the translation because Adam was assumed to be a single guy.  In 3:47 when Mary objects to the idea of having a child, the angel uses the same term but this time it is translated as ‘when God says Be, then it becomes’.  Thus God's command covers all time periods. As Adam representing human species, it has been created, is being created  and will be created as long as God says KUN.

With this story of creation comes the “forbidden tree” that leads men to sin.  Several interpretations have been offered regarding the kind of tree.  It is a possibility that humans emerged  in a garden full of trees in Africa.  There is one particular tree in South Africa called MARULA that leads men to sin.  It’s fruit intoxicates those who eat it. 16:69 says eat all fruit  - maybe except the forbidden one. What do you think?

"Hope is like a bird that senses the dawn and carefully starts to sing while it is still dark"

Offline niaz

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Re: Marula
« Reply #1 on: March 22, 2018, 11:20:06 AM »
salaam Hope,

She said; how can I indeed have a son when no man has ever touched me and I have never been unchaste. He said; thus says your Lord, it is easy for Me and We will make him a sign for the people and a mercy from Us. And this matter is preordained. She thus carried him ..... [19:20-22].

My understanding .... Mary conceived Jesus, without any man touching her (i.e., by parthenogenesis). How could Mary have a son when no man touched her and she had never been unchaste? Because it is easy for God.

And We said to Adam, dwell in paradise <الْجَنَّةَ>, you and your wife and eat from it whatever you desire, however, do not approach this tree, lest both of you become transgressors.
However, Satan duped the two of them and caused their eviction from where they were, and We said; go down as enemies of one another, and the land <الأرْضِ> shall be your abode and sustenance for awhile.
Subsequently, Adam received from his Lord words by which He accepted his repentance. Indeed, He is The Accepter of Repentance, The All Merciful.
We said, go down from here all of you.  Then when you receive guidance from Me, whoever follows My guidance has nothing to fear nor will he grieve.

My understanding ... paradise ( الْجَنَّةَ) where we lived before, was not in the land where we live now (الأرْضِ). Because God sent Adam and his wife, and the rest of us from  الْجَنَّةَ to الأرْضِ after the event discussed in 2:35, so الْجَنَّةَ could not already have been in الأرْضِ. I believe it is outside our current universe, like the paradise in the hereafter, and the paradise of abode near where Muhammad was transported to during his night journey (53:15).

Another reason is that all of us were in الْجَنَّةَ too. Surely, we (the present generation) were not in a garden in Africa.  So do we know where it was or what particular tree it was? From 3:7, I am wary of seeking an interpretation (تَأْوِيلِ) that is not already evident. The message that can be drawn from the event of the tree is that we should not disobey God, and we should follow His Guidance and commandments. And also, if we repent and turn to God, our repentance will be accepted, like Adam was forgiven.

Offline niaz

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Re: Marula
« Reply #2 on: March 23, 2018, 07:27:57 AM »
But I do agree with you that the similarity emphasized in 3:59 is that of their shared humanity. That both Jesus and Adam were created from earthly materials, or organic matter, or coded by DNA molecules etc. Being of a virgin birth does not make Jesus the "son of God".
3:59 is the only verse in the Quran, where Jesus and Adam are mentioned together in the same verse. There is a remarkable mathematical symmetry in how the names of Jesus and Adam occur in the Quran, in the process linking 3:59 to Sura 19, and specifically to 19:92. These are some verifiable facts:


Surely, the example of Jesus as far as God is concerned is just like the example of Adam.  He created him from clay and said to it, be and it then became. [3:59]

1.a. Count of Jesus in the Quran = 25.
1.b. Count of Adam in the Quran = 25.

2. The only time Jesus and Adam are mentioned together in the same verse is in 3:59. From the end of the Quran,
2.a. 3:59 has the 19th occurrence of Jesus.
2.b. 3:59 has the 19th occurrence of Adam.

3. After 3:59, they start to diverge, and are mentioned different suras (4,5,6 vs. 5,7,17,18). Then they merge and are mentioned together in Sura 19, each mentioned exactly once. Yet, despite the divergence before that, the counts not only merge again in sura 19, but interestingly they are exactly 19! From the beginning of the Quran,
3.a. Sura 19 (v. 34) has the 19th occurrence of Jesus.
3.b. Sura 19 (v. 58) has the 19th occurrence of Adam.

4. The name of God - Rahman (The All Gracious), occurs in the Quran 57 (19x3) times. As we approach the end of Sura 19, we see a phenomenon that the frequency of the word Rahman spikes (being mentioned 16 times just in this Sura). From the beginning of the Quran,
4.a. Sura 19 (v. 92) also has the 19th occurrence of Rahman!

5. And note that 34 + 58 = 92!

So the example of Jesus is like the example of Adam mathematically too, and it led us to 19:92 ...

It is not befitting for The All Gracious to beget a son! [19:92]

3:59 refutes the claim that the virgin birth gives Jesus the status of "son of God". 19:92 explains how wrong it is to attribute a son to God. Suras 3 and 19 are also connected by similar themes ... they both contain the accounts of Zacharaiah, John, Mary and Jesus.

Offline Student

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Re: Marula
« Reply #3 on: April 27, 2018, 02:52:06 PM »
Br. Niaz,

Just so you know, the Ultimate Mathematics author does not believe in and therefore deletes 2 ayahs from the present Quran to support his/Rashad Khalifa's number system:

The total number of the word ”God” or ”Allah” in the Quran is 2698. The
frequency of occurrence of every word in the Quran is mathematically generated
and positioned in the specific sura or verse according to the generators in chapter
two of this book. These parameters are based on sura 9 having 127 verses. We
will see in this book that the mathematics described in chapter two of this book
does not generate verses 9:128 and 9:129, and points to sura 9 having 127 verses
only. (pg. 25)

This is mathematically refuted in this attempt: (see page 11-12)

The word (الله), meaning “God”, is repeated 2699 times across the Qur’an, not 2698
times, and it is quite peculiar how he was only one word short of the right number! 
The number 2699 is in fact a prime number; that is, it is only divisible by itself and 1,
and in this, perhaps, is an interesting reference to the uniqueness and Oneness of
God Almighty.

And this:

As you can see, the Majestic Quran do have numbers and convey powerful and meaningful message that is beneficial to mankind in general and believers in particular.
~ Student

Offline niaz

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Re: Marula
« Reply #4 on: April 28, 2018, 07:35:39 PM »
Salaam student,

Thank you for this information. I too believe that Sura 9 revealed to Muhammad has only 127 verses, count of the word Allah in the Quran is 2698, and that the 2 verses numbered 128 and 129 in standard Hafs mushafs (or 129, 130 in others) are fabrications.

My post above related to the symmetry of the names of Jesus and Adam is independent of the number of verses in Sura 9.