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Offline salam

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Defunct verses and chapters of the Quran
« on: March 31, 2018, 09:34:18 PM »
Does the Quran contain defunct verses and chapters? This could be because they are confined to the prophet's lifetime or directed specifically to the prophet? In part, I looked at the 2nd person singular.

How much of the Quran is defunct?

Examples of possible defunct verses
49:2, 9:103, 59:7, 33:59, 66:1, 2:219, 2:222, 4:65, any verse that says "qul" to the prophet

Examples of possible defunct chapters, or portions of chapters
Chapters 9, 72, 73, 74, 80, 105, 108, 109, 112, 113, 114

Offline IjazAhmad

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Re: Defunct verses and chapters of the Quran
« Reply #1 on: April 12, 2018, 05:40:31 AM »
I think you mean abrogation? The Qur'an doesn't support the doctrine of abrogation.
However, some verses that were revealed was personally for the Prophet (pbuh) And his community of believers.  But, it's still possible to derive guidance from these verses.
So, to claim that these verses are "defunct" or "abrogated" cannot be supported by the Qur'an. 

Peace and stay blessed
Ijaz 

Offline salam

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Re: Defunct verses and chapters of the Quran
« Reply #2 on: April 12, 2018, 02:15:05 PM »
So it doesn't matter if verses were personally for the Prophet? Because these verses still apply to all believers?

Offline salam

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Re: Defunct verses and chapters of the Quran
« Reply #3 on: April 22, 2018, 07:39:11 AM »
Shalom Joseph

I have sent you 2 emails to kindly reply to this post. I am waiting patiently.

Offline salam

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Re: Defunct verses and chapters of the Quran
« Reply #4 on: April 22, 2018, 07:42:48 AM »
Joseph

My emails were sent to you on April 8 and April 17.

Offline QM Moderators Team

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Re: Defunct verses and chapters of the Quran
« Reply #5 on: April 23, 2018, 07:09:27 AM »
Dear Salam,  Please kindly do not badger br Joseph for a response. Also be aware of policy 2d. Brother Joseph will respond if he is able or deems relevant to respond.

Thank you!

Offline ilker

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Re: Defunct verses and chapters of the Quran
« Reply #6 on: April 23, 2018, 11:52:37 PM »
So it doesn't matter if verses were personally for the Prophet? Because these verses still apply to all believers?

Salamun alaykum

Yes brother. They are all relevant. Even some of them cannot be practised directly today, they have messages for all believers at all times to be extracted. They help us understand "the ideal Muslim behaviour and morality". Allah (swt) does not speak in vain. SubhanAllah.

Brother Joseph inshaAllah will help you if he has time. Be patient inshaAllah (God willing).

Take care :)

Offline Joseph Islam

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    • The Quran and its Message
Re: Defunct verses and chapters of the Quran
« Reply #7 on: April 25, 2018, 06:12:45 AM »
Dear Salam,

Wa alaikum assalam

The Quran presents a multifaceted dialogue to a diverse set of people and circumstances. Therefore, there will inevitably be verses that are of general purport / guidance (Arguably the main bulk of the Quran) and others that specifically deal with the situation at hand during the Prophetic ministry or directed at a particular people.

For example, Surah Quraish only has 4 short verses.

106.001-4
"For the ‘alafa’ of the Quraish (Arabic: Lilafi Qurayshin) , Their ‘ilafihim’(covering) journeys by winter and summer, Let them adore the Lord of this House, Who provides them with food against hunger, and with security against fear"

What is the ‘alafa’ here? Is it an obligation of some sort? A covenant? An alliance? Some sort of familiarity perhaps? If so, which covenant, where, what journeys in Winter and Summer and what fear? We cannot ascertain any of these details with certainty from the 4 short verses. Indeed, historians attempt to furnish many different accounts of what happened, often seriously contradictory. Clearly, an assessment of these sources indicates that even the historians were at times, non the wiser. In the end, no matter what version of the historian's report one accepts, the conclusion is the same.  It really does not matter what the details were [1] other than the acknowledgement that this remains a time specific Surah (Chapter) for a certain people of a bygone era. And of course, any other inference that is readily obvious from the 4 verses.

Another example is a religious edict which can be specific / compulsory for one person. The Tahajjud prayers is one such example which appears ‘compulsory’ only for the Prophet [2]. However, this does not imply that the tahajjud prayers cannot be adopted or emulated as a supererogatory prayer as good practice for all believers. Its inclusion in the Quran can also be cited as support that even the Prophet received 'religious' guidance only through the Quran thereby negating the religious authority of any other source for believers.

You also appear to have captured other verses which are time specific, for example 49:2.

“O you who believe! do not raise your voices above the voice of the Prophet, and do not speak loud to him as you speak loud to one another, lest your deeds became worthless while you do not perceive.”

This is clearly a time specific verse. However once again, general guidance can still be extracted such as how to interact with respect in appropriate situations and how good deeds can be unknowingly compromised.

As other respected members have already mentioned on this thread, time specific verses will arguably still have wisdom / guidance that can be extracted from them. The mere fact that a verse is time-specific yet, captured for posterity, in itself has wisdom to offer. Therefore, no verse is arguably ‘defunct’' or 'irrelevant'.

It may very well be that the verses inclusion may provide deeper insights that may not be immediately apparent but are necessary for the inner consistency and cohesion of the overarching Quranic narrative.

I hope this helps, God willing
Joseph


REFERENCES:

[1] UNKNOWN TOWNS AND NAMES - WHY FILL IN THE GAPS?
http://quransmessage.com/articles/unknown%20towns%20and%20names%20FM3.htm
[2] THE TAHAJJUD PRAYER
http://quransmessage.com/articles/tahajjud%20FM3.htm
'During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act' 
George Orwell

Offline Aijaz

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Re: Defunct verses and chapters of the Quran
« Reply #8 on: April 29, 2018, 04:17:08 AM »
https://topicsfromquran.wordpress.com/2018/02/08/concept-of-abrogation-of-ayas/

The above link to the post discusses part of the topic.

2:106  مَا نَنسَخْ مِنْ آيَةٍ أَوْ نُنسِهَا نَأْتِ بِخَيْرٍ مِّنْهَا أَوْ مِثْلِهَا ۗ أَلَمْ تَعْلَمْ أَنَّ اللَّهَ عَلَىٰ كُلِّ شَيْءٍ قَدِيرٌ

What we abrogate/cancel or cause to be forgotten (concepts different from spirit of Allah) from an Ayat, We substitute something better or similar. Don’t you know that Allah Has power over all things?

Normally with Ayats there are preconceived notions attached to them. These notions are not from Allah. So Allah, cancels these notions (by other Ayas) and confirms the true Spirit/understanding of Ayats. Therefore, what is cancelled from the Ayats, are the things introduced by Satan and not the Ayas themselves.