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Offline Ocyid

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The Dual Gods of Islam
« on: July 13, 2018, 07:54:17 PM »

Hi, I am the new man in this forum and I actually do not want to start to introduce myself with this post. Yet, as I see that this issue is quite pressing and I apparently have no other choice, I will have to "discuss" this matter.

I apologize for the provocative tittle or any inconvenience. If this actually has been discussed before or if I disrupt the flow of the forum itself, you may move or even remove this post.

This is going to be very long, so please bear with me for awhile. I just hope this is going to be worth it.

I am aware that most of you might already know that nowadays the focus of any study, teaching, or even mere discussion about Islam "seems to be" heavily focused on the teaching of Muhammad the prophet rather than the teaching of Quran. I guess this is why this forum was established in the first place. I too feel the same thing, maybe we, muslims or mukmin, have gone too far in studying the words and behaviors of the "messenger" that we start to forget "the messages" itself. Apparently this is the case.

I actually do not want to put this into right-or-wrong matter, but more to the reminder that everything we do has its own consequence. Whether most Muslims are aware or not, the role of Prophet Muhammad seems to move "higher" from what is clearly explained in Quran. Somehow now, the position of Muhammad the prophet has risen up from "a messenger" of "the messages from God" to the position where his name is put equally to the name of God itself. You can see the evidence in the picture below:

- there is actually a picture I attach here from Imgur, but if it does not come out... Any suggestion?-

This picture I took is from a mosque in one of the national universities in my nation. You can see that the name of the prophet is quite equal with the name of God. This kind of “position” starts to be something quite common in my nation. The thing is that the name of the prophet was actually lower than the name of God when I was a child. Several years later, his name apparently started to ascend and now become “equal” to the name of God. The interesting question is: is this really "proper" in Islam?

I do not want to exaggerate the problem or make some sensation. However, it is just that this is quite intriguing to be analyzed. Now, aside from the fact that His mosques (masjid) are actually only for Allah and there is prohibition to “invoke” others than Him in His mosques as it has been explained in Al Jinn (72) verse 18, placing other names equal to the name of God -from what my limited mind can understand- is basically a serious issue in this so-called monotheistic religion.

The core of Islam that I understand is the oneness of God. In Quran, one of the most direct understanding is by the statement of: "Nothing is equal to God" as it has been clearly informed and explicitly stated in the 4th verse of Al Ikhlas (chapter 112). You can see multiple translations of Quran regarding this particular in

You can see for yourself that despite the differences in style and chosen words within the translations of Quran in that site, the main point remains the same: there is NONE equal to God.

In Asy Syuara or Al Shu’ara  (chapter 26) verse 96-102, it is even narrated that the people who “equate” something or someone to Allah are actually the people who “manifest error”. I actually attach the word to word translation of the Quran from, so the readers can see for themselves what is actually being mentioned by the Quran. However, since many people in this forum apparently know Arabic, I don't think that is necessary. Yet, if there is doubt, you may want to check multiple translations of the Quran in especially verse 98. You can see that almost all translators use the word “equal”. Only Sahih International uses the word “equate”, which basically has the same meaning. Again, despite differences in words, the point remains the same: to make something or someone “equivalent” to God.

From Al Ikhlas (112) verse 4, it is quite clear that there is nothing equal to God and, therefore, nothing should be put equally to His Glorious Name. For the Asy Syuara (26) 96-102, many muslims might think that this verse is not addressed to them. The truth is that this verse does not address specifically who! It simply states that those who “manifest error” are those who put God the Creator equal with His Creation. Therefore, it could be anybody. It could be you or/and me. Hence, we can actually make this verse as self-introspection: is nothing really stand “next” to His name or we unconsciously add “partner” to Him? Do we truly see God as Single Creator that has NO COMPARISON or do we unknowingly see someone or something "like" Him?

I chose those verses because those verses are the ones that explicitly state "equal" in it in its various translations. But in Quran itself, the implicit understanding that there is actually "no comparison" for God exist in many verses using different words. Some of the most frequents that you may find is the use of "partners" and/or "associates" in Quran. And, remember that other languages may use different words in expressing it. In Indonesia, these words are replaced with the word "sekutu" or in English it is equivalent more with "ally". Some of the verses that mentions God has no "partners", "associates", or its equivalents are Ali Imran (3) verse 64 and 151, An Nisa (4) 36, 48, and 116, Al Maidah (5) 72, at least 12 verses in Al An’am (6): 1, 19, 40-41, 78, 81, 94, 100, 148, 150, 151, and 163, and some other verses in other chapters.

Based on my findings, the Al An’am (chapter 6) is the chapter in which “associating” or “ascribing” partner to God is largely discuss. I noted that at least 11 verses mention about this matter. In fact, this chapter begins with the statement that “those who disbelieve equate [others] with their Lord ” and a verse before the end (verse 164) also begins with "Is it other than Allah I should desire as a lord while He is the Lord of all things? ”. Pay attention that in the opening of the Al An’am (chapter 6) it is even clearly stated that the disbelievers “equate” (others) with their Lord, which clearly means they put others in the same “level” with God.

The funny thing is that many muslims (that I know) will think that this verse is not addressed to them because they believe they worship One God only. However, these verses –again- actually did not say specifically who! Some (if it is not "most" - further research needed) of these verses do not point out specific people, but rather tell us what they do. Take for instance the opening of Al An’am (chapter 6 verse 1) above. It simply states “those who disbelieve”. It could be anybody. It could be you and me. The important thing is that one of the criteria of these disbelievers is they “equate (others) with their Lord”. Isn’t the verse clear enough for us to understand? Or am I the one misunderstand it here?

Here, I do not judge who... I would rather ask myself: do I put the name of God equal to others? Do I have to disbelieve in God who created the earth in two days (Sahih International term) and attribute others equal to Him -Fussilat (41) 9-?

The prohibition in making others “equal” to God is actually mentioned in multiple chapters and verses in Quran. However, the language used or the chosen word is varied. If we look at the 7th verse of Ali Imran (3), these differences are actually something intended by the Quran itself. Only those whose hearts in “deviation” or “perversity” are seeking “discord” or “dissension” by these multiple translations of Quran. Whereas, if we look closer to the various translations of the Quran, we actually will see the “big picture” of the Quran itself. Therefore, only by seeing multiple translations of the Quran with a clear heart and mind we will see what Quran actually tries to tell us. This problem of placing an ordinary human, no matter how noble he is, in the same level with the Omnipotent and Omniscient God would be a good example for how multiple translations of Quran is actually good for us to get even wider point of view and deeper understanding of the problem itself.

In implying there is actually nothing in the same level with God, multiple translators of Quran use different words to describe this. This is something natural in translation itself. As it has been mentioned before, in Indonesian language  for instance, the word use is “sekutu”, which its equivalence is actually much closer to “ally”. In English, different translators would use different words to describe that God has no comparison whatsoever. You could look up to the 12th verse of Ghafir (40) in as an example:

In the multiple translations of Ghafir (40) verse 12, the word “yusyrok”  is translated differently by different translators. Sahih International uses the words “(others) were associated”. Pickthall uses the words “(partner) was ascribed”. Yusuf Ali uses the words “(partners) were joined”. Shakir uses the words “(associates) were given”. Muhammad Sarwar uses the words “(other things) were considered equal”. Mohsin Khan uses the words “(partners) were joined”. And, Arberry uses the words “(others) are associated”.

At the first glance, these variation in the translations of Quran seem to refer to different things. However, if we look deeper, it actually implies the same concept. Remember that the reason we call someone as “partner” is because he or she is “equal” with us. Your co-workers are equal with you, thus you call them “partners” or “associates”. If someone is higher, you don’t call them “partner”. You call them “boss”. If someone is lower, you call them “assistant”. The supposedly same concept occur with the term “ally”. If you go on war and you have someone equal to you to assist you, you call them “ally”. If they are higher or lower, you don’t call them “ally”. If their position is higher, you call them “master” (isn't it?). If their position is lower, you call them “vassal”. This shows that despite various terms used, the basic concept is actually the same: “equality”. There is nothing "equal" to God, thus there should be nothing placed “beside” Him! It really is not necessary to place something or someone name equal to the name of God (unless the Beautiful Names of God itself), as He does not need it. This is implied in multiple verses, such as An Nisa (4) 48 and 116, Al Ma'idah (5) 72, Al An'am (6) 163, Al'Araf (7) 33 and 191, (especially) At Taubah (9) 31, and many other verses. Now, the question is: what should I call the one stand equally with God? A prophet?

No, the prophet is NOT “equal” to God. There is NOTHING EQUAL to God! Those are nothing but a symbol. The prophet is lower than God. Well, that IS the problem! Look at the man who is prostrating on the bottom right. Who do you think he is prostrating to? The One on the right or the one on the left? Who wants to responsible for this?

This might seem like a simple problem. Therefore, many will take this problem as something unimportant or not worth enough to discuss or even to look at. Some even will say that those are just symbols. It represents nothing, they say. So, how if I step on those symbols? Will you be angry? Why? Because those symbols are very sacred for us. Those symbols represent what we really believe in; those symbols represent our mentality. So, is it really "not ok" for me who believes there is nothing "equal" to God to feel "uneasy" when the name of a human is put side by side with His Glorious Name? Don't we understand the Quran?

Those who read Quran will understand that the mosque (masjid) itself is actually for Allah only, as it has been mentioned in Al Jinn (chapter 72) verse 18. Quran, through its many verses forbid us to place something “equal” to Him His Glorious Name. Why do we, as the ones who read Quran, dare to put other names equal to Him in His mosque? Who wants to take responsibility for this?

I apologize if my writing style makes you misunderstand. I do not try to diminish or even forget the role of the prophet Muhammad, may peace be upon him, in spreading the Quran. Yet, don't you think we might have been exaggerating his role by far that some people even dare to put his name equal to the name of God? The prophet Muhammad is indeed important figure in Islam, but do we really necessary to place his name side-by-side with the name of The God itself? What is actually going on? Have we not trespassed a very fine line with this?

The same question is actually being asked in Yunus (10) 35 (

If you are still not aware with the real issue here, the placement of the prophet name "equal" with the name of God is actually a clear evidence of why we should focus on the Quran even more. I do not say we should not learn about "other sources outside of the Quran", all I am saying is that all those "sources" we learn outside the Quran should not "compromise" the Quran itself. I believe Mr. Joseph call this "Quran Centrist" (#CMIIMW). The same thing that I do not try to disrespect the prophet himself, all I am asking: do we have to put his name equal with the name of God?

Remember, this kind of thing is forbidden not for no reason. If this kind of thing is allowed, what do you think will happen next?

Don't the lesson in At Tawbah (9) 31 teaches you something?

For me, I am actually seeing how true Quran is... I see that those who learn Quran and try to make Islamic people back to Quran actually just implement these verses: Al An'am (6) 150-151. The only homework they have is to put aside their differences and start to focus on more important matter. We will always have our own differences, but don't we agree on the most important matter? Only by working together we can achieve our goal: One God, One Quran, One Islam!

It still amazes me indeed how Quran is always right...

Again, I apologize if I offend you in someway through my writing... never intend to... never try to...

I do not try to disrespect, diminish, or even forget the role of prophet Muhammad (may peace be upon him) in spreading the Quran. I am just merely asking: do we really have to place his name equal to the name of God?

I do not know where future will lead us to, but there is danger in elevating others equal to God... It wouldn't be warned multiple times if there is no danger in doing that... and even after these multiple warnings, people are still doing it... It is funny that some people criticize how many verses are repeated in Quran. The thing they do not know is that even after those multiple repetitions, not many people take the lessons to not repeat the same mistakes again...

Look at these verses: Al Qamar [54] 17, 22, 32, and 40. These verses are only repetition. And even after this many repetition, we still learn nothing. Look how true these verses are!

There are actually at least two more discussions after this, if you allow me. The first one is the danger as it has been mentioned in Ar Rum (30) verse 28 and the cause as it has been mentioned in Yunus (10) 18.

In the end, the proof that almost not many muslims have the objection when the name of the prophet is placed equally with the name of God actually shows that the term “Nothing is equal to God (112:4)” might have not been fully understood.

And if you want to determine how bad the situation is, maybe we should start looking at the mosque we are praying in and see: does the name of God stand alone or there is a companion equal to Him? Is it really proper to place the name of a human being equal with the Lord of All Things in the heaven and earth?

Sorry again for the long discussion. I just do not know where else should I put this cause I know not many will understand what I am trying to say... I actually fear and feel not a worthy person to discuss this sacred matter. But, I do not thing the Oneness of God is something that can be compromised. For me, that is the fine line that should not be trespassed and here is the only place I know to express it.

Thank you for accepting me in this forum, I hope my writing is worth your time.

Salamun Alaikum
One God, One Quran, One Islam
"I’ve had enough of someone else’s propaganda.…I’m for truth, no matter who tells it. I’m for justice, no matter who it is for or against. I’m a human being first and foremost, and as such I’m for whoever and whatever benefits humanity as a whole." - Malcolm X (Chapter Nineteen, 1965)