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Offline Shahmatt

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"Muhammad was not from Mecca" by Sam Garrans
« on: March 07, 2019, 05:09:34 PM »
I post below the link to a youtube video by Sam Garrans in which he summarizes points made in the book "Qur'anic Geography" by Dan Gibson

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=inJ1mCIsz5A

He argues that Muhammad was not from Mecca based on Quranic descriptions of the geography.

I would appreciate it if anyone here could critique his points.

Offline w3bcrowf3r

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Re: "Muhammad was not from Mecca" by Sam Garrans
« Reply #1 on: March 09, 2019, 11:06:58 AM »
Watch out for those anti-Meccans. If you pay attention, the masjid al-haraam is in Mecca according to the Quran. These people say that it is somewhere else etc.

Go learn Arabic and stop making the same mistake. Read on your own. Instead of making the same mistake twice. First you were listening to the "imams" and now you are listening to people like Sam, Rashad, Edip etc.
Repent, the Kingdom of God is at hand!

Offline Wakas

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Re: "Muhammad was not from Mecca" by Sam Garrans
« Reply #2 on: March 09, 2019, 02:43:49 PM »
peace,

...the masjid al-haraam is in Mecca according to the Quran.

Evidence please.

Offline Hamzeh

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Re: "Muhammad was not from Mecca" by Sam Garrans
« Reply #3 on: March 09, 2019, 11:50:53 PM »
Peace

It is true that the Quran does not directly with one verse indicate that Masjid Al Haram is located in Mecca but does give the most possible support that is it in Mecca through the whole message of the Quran and definitely does not give any evidence directly or indirectly otherwise.

Belivers will not always know everything perfectly and with certainty but are directed to take the best possible meanings and interpretations as I already know you know.

39:18 Those who listen to the Word, and follow the best (meaning) in it: those are the ones whom Allah has guided, and those are the ones endued with understanding.

Hope you find this article helpful.

Peace

IS MAKKAH THE ORIGINAL LOCATION FOR THE MASJID AL-HARAM?
http://quransmessage.com/articles/original sanctuary FM3.htm

Offline w3bcrowf3r

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Re: "Muhammad was not from Mecca" by Sam Garrans
« Reply #4 on: March 12, 2019, 08:15:24 PM »
peace,

...the masjid al-haraam is in Mecca according to the Quran.

Evidence please.

An English translation of the Quran - 48:24 And He is the One who withheld their hands against you, and your hands against them in the interior of Mecca, after He had made you victorious over them. God is Seer of what you do. 48:25 They are the ones who rejected and barred you from the Restricted Temple, and barred your donations from reaching their destination. And there had been believing men and believing women whom you did not know, and you may have hurt them, and on whose account you would have incurred a sin unknowingly. God will admit into His mercy whoever He wills. Had they become separated, We would then have punished those from them who rejected with a painful retribution.
Repent, the Kingdom of God is at hand!

Offline w3bcrowf3r

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Re: "Muhammad was not from Mecca" by Sam Garrans
« Reply #5 on: March 12, 2019, 08:16:36 PM »
Peace

It is true that the Quran does not directly with one verse indicate that Masjid Al Haram is located in Mecca but does give the most possible support that is it in Mecca through the whole message of the Quran and definitely does not give any evidence directly or indirectly otherwise.

Belivers will not always know everything perfectly and with certainty but are directed to take the best possible meanings and interpretations as I already know you know.

39:18 Those who listen to the Word, and follow the best (meaning) in it: those are the ones whom Allah has guided, and those are the ones endued with understanding.

Hope you find this article helpful.

Peace

IS MAKKAH THE ORIGINAL LOCATION FOR THE MASJID AL-HARAM?
http://quransmessage.com/articles/original sanctuary FM3.htm

An English translation of the Quran - 48:24 And He is the One who withheld their hands against you, and your hands against them in the interior of Mecca, after He had made you victorious over them. God is Seer of what you do. 48:25 They are the ones who rejected and barred you from the Restricted Temple, and barred your donations from reaching their destination. And there had been believing men and believing women whom you did not know, and you may have hurt them, and on whose account you would have incurred a sin unknowingly. God will admit into His mercy whoever He wills. Had they become separated, We would then have punished those from them who rejected with a painful retribution.
Repent, the Kingdom of God is at hand!

Offline Sstikstof

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Re: "Muhammad was not from Mecca" by Sam Garrans
« Reply #6 on: March 14, 2019, 07:20:57 AM »
Good reply w3bcrowf3r :)
“And no example do they bring to you but We bring to you the truth and the BEST TAFSEER (EXEGESIS).” 25:33

The best commentary of the Qur’an is the Qur’an itself!

Offline w3bcrowf3r

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Re: "Muhammad was not from Mecca" by Sam Garrans
« Reply #7 on: March 14, 2019, 08:18:46 AM »
Good reply w3bcrowf3r :)

Are you Dutch?!
Repent, the Kingdom of God is at hand!

Offline Sstikstof

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Re: "Muhammad was not from Mecca" by Sam Garrans
« Reply #8 on: March 14, 2019, 08:27:31 AM »
No.
“And no example do they bring to you but We bring to you the truth and the BEST TAFSEER (EXEGESIS).” 25:33

The best commentary of the Qur’an is the Qur’an itself!

Offline Wakas

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Re: "Muhammad was not from Mecca" by Sam Garrans
« Reply #9 on: March 17, 2019, 12:52:48 PM »
I am aware of 48:24. You may find the following discussions interesting:
https://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9597437.msg224876#msg224876
http://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9598276.msg201108#msg201108
https://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9599473.msg231813#msg231813

Short summary: in Arabic to determine whether something is a proper noun or not is done primarily by context. For example there is no capital letters in Arabic.
If one follows Classical Arabic grammar rules (which were regularised post-Quran) there is inconsistency in results as discussed above.

In any case, even if one took "makkah" to be the city of, i.e. a proper noun, in 48:24, that verse still doesn't explicitly state what you claimed.

Offline relearning

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Re: "Muhammad was not from Mecca" by Sam Garrans
« Reply #10 on: March 19, 2019, 12:43:12 PM »
even these trivial things are not stated explicitly and clearly and paving road to disagreement between the followers of islam. but quran says it is crystal clear then i guess something is wrong...

Offline w3bcrowf3r

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Re: "Muhammad was not from Mecca" by Sam Garrans
« Reply #11 on: March 21, 2019, 07:23:11 AM »
even these trivial things are not stated explicitly and clearly and paving road to disagreement between the followers of islam. but quran says it is crystal clear then i guess something is wrong...

Most of us dont know Arabic, and are following these translations with errors. That's the problem, we need to learn Arabic. But people are to lazy to dedicate 5 years of their life to learn the language, and will come with their opinion that we dont need to learn Arabic.
Repent, the Kingdom of God is at hand!