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Offline w3bcrowf3r

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Offline Sstikstof

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Re: Best explanation i saw about salaat, ever.
« Reply #1 on: April 06, 2019, 08:28:35 AM »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4APNPrfRORQ

Some verses are presented for your acknowledgements,

"Indeed, I am Allah. There is no deity except Me, so worship Me and establish prayer for My remembrance." Quran 20:14
In this verse, the word "fa-uʿ'bud'nī" comes from triliteral root ʿayn bā dāl (ع ب د), which means 'to worship' in verb form.

"Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah ; and those with him are firm against the disbelievers, merciful among themselves. You see them bowing and prostrating, seeking bounty from Allah and [His] pleasure. Their mark is on their faces from the trace of prostration. That is their similitude in the Torah. And their similitude in the Injeel, is like a seed (which) sends forth its shoot then strengthens it, then it becomes thick and it stands upon its stem delighting the sowers - that He (may) enrage by them the disbelievers. Allah has promised those who believe and do righteous deeds among them forgiveness and a great reward." Quran 48:29.

Please be advised that, a root meaning must never be considered devoid of context. Words have meanings in certain contexts.

See this topic for more discussions, http://quransmessage.com/forum/index.php?topic=90.0.


“And no example do they bring to you but We bring to you the truth and the BEST TAFSEER (EXEGESIS).” 25:33

The best commentary of the Qur’an is the Qur’an itself!

Offline w3bcrowf3r

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Re: Best explanation i saw about salaat, ever.
« Reply #2 on: April 06, 2019, 11:38:42 AM »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4APNPrfRORQ

Some verses are presented for your acknowledgements,

"Indeed, I am Allah. There is no deity except Me, so worship Me and establish prayer for My remembrance." Quran 20:14
In this verse, the word "fa-uʿ'bud'nī" comes from triliteral root ʿayn bā dāl (ع ب د), which means 'to worship' in verb form.

"Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah ; and those with him are firm against the disbelievers, merciful among themselves. You see them bowing and prostrating, seeking bounty from Allah and [His] pleasure. Their mark is on their faces from the trace of prostration. That is their similitude in the Torah. And their similitude in the Injeel, is like a seed (which) sends forth its shoot then strengthens it, then it becomes thick and it stands upon its stem delighting the sowers - that He (may) enrage by them the disbelievers. Allah has promised those who believe and do righteous deeds among them forgiveness and a great reward." Quran 48:29.

Please be advised that, a root meaning must never be considered devoid of context. Words have meanings in certain contexts.

See this topic for more discussions, http://quransmessage.com/forum/index.php?topic=90.0.

The brother knows Arabic. I am still learning it.

I never heard a better explanation from the Quran about bowing and prostrating. In Arabic he said those words mean to yield and submit. 

He explained it so well in Arabic.

Instead of bowing and prostrating i am now yielding and submitting. I think the translations are off here.
Repent, the Kingdom of God is at hand!

Offline Wakas

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Re: Best explanation i saw about salaat, ever.
« Reply #3 on: April 06, 2019, 11:18:07 PM »
Ayn-Ba-Dal has a wider meaning than "worship". From: http://www.studyquran.co.uk/PRLonline.htm
Ayn-Ba-Dal = serve, worship, adore, venerate, accept the impression of a thing, obey with submissiveness or humility, approve, apply, devote, obedience, slave, keep to inseparably, subdue, assemble together, enslave.

Re: 48:29
48:29 Muhammad is the messenger of God, and those who are with him are stern against the concealers/rejecters/ingrates, but merciful between themselves. You see them inclining/humbling and SuJaD, seeking bounty from God and pleasure/approval. Their distinction is in their faces/attentions/considerations/wills/purposes, from the trace/teaching/influence of the SuJuD. Such is their example in the Torah. And their example in the Injeel is like a seed/crop which sends forth its shoot then strengthened it then becomes thick then stands upon its stem, pleasing to the sowers. That He may enrage the rejecters/concealers with them. God promises those who believe and do good works a forgiveness and a great reward.

It is interesting to note the preposition "fi" (in) not "ala" (on), making it "their distinction/mark is IN their faces/wills/purposes/considerations". Minority usage of "fi" can mean on/at however.
The word "athar" (root: Alif-Tha-Ra) basically means "that which is left behind from something" hence its meanings such as trace/mark/impression/teaching/influence and is not necessarily a physical thing, see 5:46, 18:6, 20:96, 30:50.
The word "seema" (root: Siin-Waw-Miim) means an identifying feature (e.g. could be the way someone looks or acts) see 2:273, 7:46, 7:48, 47:30, 55:41. Perhaps the majority of people would not have a trace of prostration on their face from physically prostrating in prayer for example, even if it was done many times per day, so this understanding, whilst superficially plausible, actually falls short. Some translators, e.g. Asad, do not take it to mean a physical mark on one's face.
It should be noted that "inclining and SJD" seems to relate to "seeking bounty from God and pleasure/approval" whose other occurrences relate to worldly benefits/provisions.
It should be noted that in the prior context, 48:25, it clearly implies some believers were unknown/unrecognisable, which makes it even more unlikely it is referring to a physical mark on one's face.
The "them" refers to the believers undergoing such growth. It may also imply that actualising oneself under the guidance of God's system leads to self-growth and benefits. There is an implication that the act of SJD can function as a catalyst to such growth, as it leaves an impression/influence upon such a person, thus the demeanor stems from that act/mindset, and results in fruitful growth and reward, and this is the message encapsulated in the example at the end. To achieve such effective growth, one's will/consideration/purpose/attention should be traceable back to the act of SJD.


######

Let's keep it simple:


We know the following from Quran:
mankind is forgetful
God has sent us periodic reminders of His guidance (via prophets/messengers, revelations etc)

Once we (believers in Quran) have such guidance, are we then in no need of periodic reminders? Have we eliminated the quality of being "forgetful"? What if part of "establishing the divine system" involves a periodic reminder session for the believers - for, if we are to apply such guidance, surely we must learn what it entails - application is inextricably tied to knowing what/how to apply.

If God has sent us periodic reminders, then it makes sense for us to remind ourselves of it periodically.

Offline Sstikstof

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Re: Best explanation i saw about salaat, ever.
« Reply #4 on: April 07, 2019, 11:15:33 AM »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4APNPrfRORQ

Some verses are presented for your acknowledgements,

"Indeed, I am Allah. There is no deity except Me, so worship Me and establish prayer for My remembrance." Quran 20:14
In this verse, the word "fa-uʿ'bud'nī" comes from triliteral root ʿayn bā dāl (ع ب د), which means 'to worship' in verb form.

"Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah ; and those with him are firm against the disbelievers, merciful among themselves. You see them bowing and prostrating, seeking bounty from Allah and [His] pleasure. Their mark is on their faces from the trace of prostration. That is their similitude in the Torah. And their similitude in the Injeel, is like a seed (which) sends forth its shoot then strengthens it, then it becomes thick and it stands upon its stem delighting the sowers - that He (may) enrage by them the disbelievers. Allah has promised those who believe and do righteous deeds among them forgiveness and a great reward." Quran 48:29.

Please be advised that, a root meaning must never be considered devoid of context. Words have meanings in certain contexts.

See this topic for more discussions, http://quransmessage.com/forum/index.php?topic=90.0.

The brother knows Arabic. I am still learning it.

I never heard a better explanation from the Quran about bowing and prostrating. In Arabic he said those words mean to yield and submit. 

He explained it so well in Arabic.

Instead of bowing and prostrating i am now yielding and submitting. I think the translations are off here.
Please be notified that I already have studied on 'the brother' from video years ago. For your better understanding with ease and simple, I am replying you simply.

'The brother' from video uses the root Arabic word 'directly' for finding any sort of renditions or meanings which is called 'root definition'. In general, he does not use any grammar, he does not use any 'prefix or suffix' & context based meanings. His dictionary does not have any vocabulary except root word in a language. As a result, alien or baseless interpretation has been occurred. But that is a wrong step for gaining proper knowledge of a language. Every language have vocabularies, grammar, context based meanings or renditions and root word. For example, English word 'March' refers to a dedicated month of a year, it can also mean 'walk in a military manner with a regular measured tread' in verb form & also it can mean to 'an act or instance of marching' as noun & also it can mean to 'the steady and inevitable development or progress of something' as noun, but its origin or root word is same, which is, 'marche+mark (Germanic)'. Similar theme also goes with Quranic texts as well as Arabic language. Hope that clarifies.
“And no example do they bring to you but We bring to you the truth and the BEST TAFSEER (EXEGESIS).” 25:33

The best commentary of the Qur’an is the Qur’an itself!

Offline s1c4r1us

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Re: Best explanation i saw about salaat, ever.
« Reply #5 on: July 10, 2019, 03:56:18 PM »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4APNPrfRORQ

Some verses are presented for your acknowledgements,

"Indeed, I am Allah. There is no deity except Me, so worship Me and establish prayer for My remembrance." Quran 20:14
In this verse, the word "fa-uʿ'bud'nī" comes from triliteral root ʿayn bā dāl (ع ب د), which means 'to worship' in verb form.

"Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah ; and those with him are firm against the disbelievers, merciful among themselves. You see them bowing and prostrating, seeking bounty from Allah and [His] pleasure. Their mark is on their faces from the trace of prostration. That is their similitude in the Torah. And their similitude in the Injeel, is like a seed (which) sends forth its shoot then strengthens it, then it becomes thick and it stands upon its stem delighting the sowers - that He (may) enrage by them the disbelievers. Allah has promised those who believe and do righteous deeds among them forgiveness and a great reward." Quran 48:29.

Please be advised that, a root meaning must never be considered devoid of context. Words have meanings in certain contexts.

See this topic for more discussions, http://quransmessage.com/forum/index.php?topic=90.0.

The brother knows Arabic. I am still learning it.

I never heard a better explanation from the Quran about bowing and prostrating. In Arabic he said those words mean to yield and submit. 

He explained it so well in Arabic.

Instead of bowing and prostrating i am now yielding and submitting. I think the translations are off here.
Please be notified that I already have studied on 'the brother' from video years ago. For your better understanding with ease and simple, I am replying you simply.

'The brother' from video uses the root Arabic word 'directly' for finding any sort of renditions or meanings which is called 'root definition'. In general, he does not use any grammar, he does not use any 'prefix or suffix' & context based meanings. His dictionary does not have any vocabulary except root word in a language. As a result, alien or baseless interpretation has been occurred. But that is a wrong step for gaining proper knowledge of a language. Every language have vocabularies, grammar, context based meanings or renditions and root word. For example, English word 'March' refers to a dedicated month of a year, it can also mean 'walk in a military manner with a regular measured tread' in verb form & also it can mean to 'an act or instance of marching' as noun & also it can mean to 'the steady and inevitable development or progress of something' as noun, but its origin or root word is same, which is, 'marche+mark (Germanic)'. Similar theme also goes with Quranic texts as well as Arabic language. Hope that clarifies.

You disagree with him about what?

If we can't use the root dictionaries, then what should we use? The books written by people such as bukhari or shaykh ala shaykh?

Offline niaz

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Re: Best explanation i saw about salaat, ever.
« Reply #6 on: July 11, 2019, 01:18:45 AM »
Quote
If we can't use the root dictionaries, then what should we use? The books written by people such as bukhari or shaykh ala shaykh?

Common sense.

Quran's message is very simple. Its commandments are very simple. It is accessible in any language. All we have to do is "hear and obey".

Using simple, common, obvious, evident meanings that are clear in most translations. And not splitting hairs and asking irrelevant questions (like Moses' people did in the event of slaughtering the heifer).

God is not a racist, and has not made mastering Arabic a prerequisite for salvation. If that was true, then the greatest Arabic scholars have been traditionalists, and not the internet wannabes thinking they mastered Arabic by poring through lexicons. They have become modern day Islamic Jurists, creating their own new age Hadith and Sunnah. In the process, the Quran's message has been rendered into a joke.

Sorry for the outrage.

Peace,
niaz

Offline s1c4r1us

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Re: Best explanation i saw about salaat, ever.
« Reply #7 on: July 11, 2019, 11:53:17 AM »
Quote
If we can't use the root dictionaries, then what should we use? The books written by people such as bukhari or shaykh ala shaykh?

Common sense.

Quran's message is very simple. Its commandments are very simple. It is accessible in any language. All we have to do is "hear and obey".

Using simple, common, obvious, evident meanings that are clear in most translations. And not splitting hairs and asking irrelevant questions (like Moses' people did in the event of slaughtering the heifer).

God is not a racist, and has not made mastering Arabic a prerequisite for salvation. If that was true, then the greatest Arabic scholars have been traditionalists, and not the internet wannabes thinking they mastered Arabic by poring through lexicons. They have become modern day Islamic Jurists, creating their own new age Hadith and Sunnah. In the process, the Quran's message has been rendered into a joke.

Sorry for the outrage.

Peace,
niaz

We indeed do not even have to read the Quran to know what is good if we follow the Law within us. I don't believe that we can only enter Paradise by reading the Quran. There are many other Scriptures on earth which are Good for Salvation as well. Even if you don't read any Scripture, and lived a good life, then why would God punish you for that?

But what i am saying is that we need to master the language of the Book if we want to follow It correctly.

Offline niaz

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Re: Best explanation i saw about salaat, ever.
« Reply #8 on: July 12, 2019, 04:18:28 AM »
Salaam,

True! God can guide people with or without scripture. God can also guide through the previous scriptures.

Yet, God sent down the Quran, the last scripture, with wisdom and enlightenment, as a beacon and a guide for all of humanity. And for all time to come. For Arabs and non-Arabs. And God has not reserved this light only for those who have mastered Arabic, leaving all those who do not know Arabic grappling in the dark. This is just an excuse made by the 'Ulama, both traditionalist and new-age, to claim exclusivist access to the Quran, and sell their fabricated theories.

Had We made it a Non-Arabic Quran, they would have surely said, its verses are not elucidated. Non-Arabic or Arabic, say, for those who are faithful, it is a guide and a healing. As for those who have no faith, there is deafness in their ears and they are blind. It is as though they are being called from a far away place. [41:44]

Obsession with intricacies of Arabic and its lexicon and grammar has become the new fad. This methodology of pretending not to know the meaning of Arabic words, creating a parallel language by claiming to be an "Arabic expert", ripping apart Quranic verses, phrases and words to shreds, and trying to reconstruct the meaning of words from this "jumbled mess" (thanks video!) is not very different from the methodologies of Qiyas, Ijthihad etc. that gave us Islamic Jurisprudence. The works of these new-age scholars are also secondary sources besides the Quran, and have be rejected according to 45:6.

Sorry for being this blunt, but I would be a hypocrite if I am critical of only the traditionalist secondary sources, and give a pass to the new age variants.

Quran is a simple book. Read it cover to cover, and God is its Teacher. No need for such gymnastics or secondary sources to "interpret" it. Quran is its own best interpretation (25:33).

Peace,
niaz

Offline s1c4r1us

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Re: Best explanation i saw about salaat, ever.
« Reply #9 on: July 15, 2019, 10:19:44 PM »
Salaam,

True! God can guide people with or without scripture. God can also guide through the previous scriptures.

Yet, God sent down the Quran, the last scripture, with wisdom and enlightenment, as a beacon and a guide for all of humanity. And for all time to come. For Arabs and non-Arabs. And God has not reserved this light only for those who have mastered Arabic, leaving all those who do not know Arabic grappling in the dark. This is just an excuse made by the 'Ulama, both traditionalist and new-age, to claim exclusivist access to the Quran, and sell their fabricated theories.

Had We made it a Non-Arabic Quran, they would have surely said, its verses are not elucidated. Non-Arabic or Arabic, say, for those who are faithful, it is a guide and a healing. As for those who have no faith, there is deafness in their ears and they are blind. It is as though they are being called from a far away place. [41:44]

Obsession with intricacies of Arabic and its lexicon and grammar has become the new fad. This methodology of pretending not to know the meaning of Arabic words, creating a parallel language by claiming to be an "Arabic expert", ripping apart Quranic verses, phrases and words to shreds, and trying to reconstruct the meaning of words from this "jumbled mess" (thanks video!) is not very different from the methodologies of Qiyas, Ijthihad etc. that gave us Islamic Jurisprudence. The works of these new-age scholars are also secondary sources besides the Quran, and have be rejected according to 45:6.

Sorry for being this blunt, but I would be a hypocrite if I am critical of only the traditionalist secondary sources, and give a pass to the new age variants.

Quran is a simple book. Read it cover to cover, and God is its Teacher. No need for such gymnastics or secondary sources to "interpret" it. Quran is its own best interpretation (25:33).

Peace,
niaz

I am learning Arabic because there are no perfect translations. It doesn't mean i am going to understand the Quran if i know Arabic. That's why i ask God to make me understand It.

Offline AQL

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Re: Best explanation i saw about salaat, ever.
« Reply #10 on: July 15, 2019, 10:34:46 PM »
Salaam,

Obsession with intricacies of Arabic and its lexicon and grammar has become the new fad. This methodology of pretending not to know the meaning of Arabic words, creating a parallel language by claiming to be an "Arabic expert", ripping apart Quranic verses, phrases and words to shreds, and trying to reconstruct the meaning of words from this "jumbled mess" (thanks video!) is not very different from the methodologies of Qiyas, Ijthihad etc. that gave us Islamic Jurisprudence. The works of these new-age scholars are also secondary sources besides the Quran, and have be rejected according to 45:6.

Peace,
niaz

Salaam,

So do you not agree with some articles on this website that go against the traditionalist meanings of certain words by using roots/lexicons (for example hoor, khimar etc)?

Offline Truth Seeker

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Re: Best explanation i saw about salaat, ever.
« Reply #11 on: July 19, 2019, 06:55:52 PM »
Salaam all,

I must say that the explanation is not good at all in my opinion. He is completely trying to change well known words, twisting them to fit his agenda.

What is shocking to me is that people may just start following his thinking because they feel that he is some Arabic language specialist so what he says must be true!

People like him don't want to physically prostrate to their Creator..he feels he is beyond this and instead has these mysterious 'study sessions several times a day'

And this definition of salaat 'following closely' doesn't make sense as he is struggling to define it properly, let alone his feeble attempts to define bowing, prostrating etc !

Offline s1c4r1us

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Re: Best explanation i saw about salaat, ever.
« Reply #12 on: July 24, 2019, 05:56:44 PM »
Salaam all,

I must say that the explanation is not good at all in my opinion. He is completely trying to change well known words, twisting them to fit his agenda.

What is shocking to me is that people may just start following his thinking because they feel that he is some Arabic language specialist so what he says must be true!

People like him don't want to physically prostrate to their Creator..he feels he is beyond this and instead has these mysterious 'study sessions several times a day'

And this definition of salaat 'following closely' doesn't make sense as he is struggling to define it properly, let alone his feeble attempts to define bowing, prostrating etc !

What's wrong about hes explanation?