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Offline Hamzeh

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Vaccines
« on: August 29, 2021, 10:14:27 AM »
Assalamu 3alykum

Dear Brothers and Sisters

I hope and pray that you are all in good faith and are in good health Insha'Allah.

As I really value and respect the members of this forum and are all dear to me, even when we dont see eye to eye, I believe Insha'Allah there is an honest right/best answer somewhere within our discussions as they are revolved around The Noble Quran Alhamdulila. So for that reason and I hope brother Joseph and the moderators dont mind me posting what may seem like personal or political questions or discussions on his website.

Its no secret that we are living in unusual times where there has been so many disputes and divides on so many different issues facing the world. Even though one might think with our advanced technology and our advancements in knowledge, lifestyles and speed it would be easy to identify the lies ,misconceptions and corruptions happening and that everything is captured and delivered in its purity. What I notice which takes no more than turning on the television that depending on the station you watch you will have a different, conflicting perspectives and opinions on certain topics. Which the different groups all present there own doctors, professors, journalists etc to support their opinions.

When it comes to politics, governments, science, medicine, subjective topics etc the one place that people go to and even kids is the internet and the first answer or what is usually the most popular is what is considered truth. Sometimes possibly these first place answers on the top of the page are also motivated by politics and money. So it seems to me but I could be wrong.

Or it seems sometimes it really depends on which group you support or trust. Sometimes when one feels like something doesnt make sense and goes to research it, ones keeps going back in circles as the internet is filled with so much division and conflicting opinions even among those who are doctors, professors scholars etc that it confuses the person even more. Maybe this has always been the way, but I find it has become harder that especially when people who dont take the first answer they hear or dont blindy accept at first glace the mainstream way or agree with the ruling governments or science they are becoming deemed as foolish. There is times in my humble opinion that it is true that the ruling parties or the mainstream is right or at least seems to be correct. A good example was not to long ago when people started talking about if the Earth was flat or round. Spurs of ideas starting popping up and to pick a side or make a judgment one is almost required to start getting technical and familiar with astronomy. Maybe this is life and why we are here and there is nothing wrong with the process, but I mean I believe the Quran does have an answer to everything even though it might not be explicit. So I hope maybe we can start to speak about the things happening in our world and try to tackle them with the Quran Insha'Allah.

Because I do not notice any country or state that really uses the Quran as their sole guidance to tackle on going events/situations in our present time and we cannot decipher and answer from their example, I thought maybe I would bring them up on this forum and talk about them in the light of the Quran and Insha'Allah we can make right decisions in our lives regarding these issues people are divided over.

Ive noticed lately that some groups have been trying to use science to prove many of their thoughts/logic or solutions regarding certain issues that have been arising in our time. I am not against science and I do think that it has a place in our world. This would be ultimately knowledge given to us from the Creator as a blessing. We also do see that a lot of good things have happened because of discoveries.

What I worry about though is that when things sometimes dont make complete sense to the average person and really there is no clear explanation or evidence that its the problem or the solution, is it real science? Are we expected to just take the word of articles or agencies that claim thats clinical trials were conducted and this is what this shows or experiments show this and that, or polls or study show this and that, or data shows this and that? Is this what is called to be evidence? Sometimes I find them questionable.

So these are the grey areas that lead one to research and sometimes the research keeps you in confusion and ultimately you have no idea what to do.


Just to name a few of things Ive noticed lately that has been in discussions on a big scale like whether or not countries/cities/states should take action on, or legalize, or ban, or mandate/force such actions such as:

1. Vaccines/immunizations? To force them upon people as it will saves lives? Or the freedom to choose but pose a risk on others? Vaccine passports? Masks?
2. Global warming/Climate Change? Is this from what the hands of modern day people are doing? or control from the Creator? Are we corrupting the Earth?
3. Natural resources such as fossil fuels, oil, natural gas? Is this destroying the world, or a blessing? Do we support it or find an alternate way?
4. Modern day farming, whether animals are healthy or not in this day of age when farming is like this? Is the modern day farming practices an act of corruption and greed or is it a blessing so food can be produced on large scales?
Use of pesticides, herbicides, chemicals, do they harm the planet or do they ease the way food is harvested?
5. Mining bitcoin, use of cryptocurrency whether it is gambling or an investment? Does it harms the Earth using energy or unites people with a global currency. No need for regulations from central Governments?
6. Wars and invasions in countries? Do you help them or leave them? Is it lawful to help and fight injustice in other countries or do not get involved?
7. Border control? Freely allow people into your border?
8. Refugees?
9. Asylum seekers
10. Trading/business
and many more.


Opinions regarding these topics are divided. Often it is a decision based on whether one is a liberal or a conservative, right or a left, democrat or a republican, religious or secular or which sources one reads.

I think in my humble opinion with minds that focus on the Quranic source for guidance can achieve a blessed and right conclusion Insha'Allah.

Maybe we can use the example of the situations happening and hypothetically see what a Islamic state would do regarding these from time to time Insha'Allah.


One topic if no one is disturbed by it, that has always been on my mind from a very long time ago which I have never been conclusive about was vaccines.

So I will keep this posts subject regarding it.


So regarding the vaccines. As the whole world is now talking about it, I was one of those people who had no idea what they were and if they even existed. I was never faced with a decision to take one or not because my parents had already made that decision for me when I was younger.

The first time it came to my attention was when I had my first child about 12 years ago before I was on this forum. I remember Masha'Allah when my son was about 2 month and was sitting around with him, my wife tells me "your son has a doctors appointment tomorrow for a immunization needle."

Something happened to me that moment as I grabbed him as I feared, I just replied and stopped suddenly what I was doing and said "Excuse me, what do you mean, needle? for what". As I held my son, and my wife speaking to me I started examining him.

Her response was basically "well you have to, everyone does it Its just a needle".

I was puzzled, something was happening to me, and Im just looking at him Masha'Allah a created creature from God, Im thinking why does he need a needle. Is there something missing from our system that we cannot live on this Planet.

So many questions was just running through my head at that point. I was so confused, like never before in my life.

I had more of a discussion with my wife and she was worried I will not give him the needle the next day so she would call my family and parents and everyone started to call me and say what am I doing and this is normal and you had it and this and that and that its dangerous if you dont give him the needle and so on." I'll keep it short.

I just replied thats Im not saying no but Im not saying yes. I have to see what this is and do some research.

I just couldnt get it through my head that a human that God created Masha'Allah in the best of fashion/mold in order for him to live needed a immunization shot. That it felt like what was being intended that was this human being is missing something or that God created him in a way that for him to live he still depended on this shot.

I researched everything. I spent weeks maybe month reading, going back and forth. I was even more confused. Conflicting answers. Some say there was scenerios where problems happened, doctors say that was nonsense, and so on.

It doesnt take much to see the conflicting stories. I didnt think anyone would lie about there childrens reactions to vaccines. I also didnt think doctors would lie either.

I found this kind of topic to be very hard to discern. I dont want to go into details about all the evidence that leads to pro-vaccines vs anti-vaccines. But they both have their credibility. But so did a conscience.

17:36 And do not pursue that of which you have no knowledge. Indeed, the hearing, the sight and the heart - about all those [one] will be questioned.


Is such a topic something we do have such knowledge about? Can it really be said that vaccines are what eliminated past sicknesses/viruses or was their time up? How can it ever be proved? Are the studies and numbers reliable?

Even today's pandemic, what if it was left alone without vaccines, would the numbers be the same or not? Would it run its course as the Lord wills, or do we have the power to defeat it?

Do we take our full precautions by trusting the leaders and doctors by taking the needles, or do we not inflict something if it aint needing it? "if it aint broke dont fix it"

I hope not to confuse people like I was but hoping Insha'Allah to get some ideas and thoughts from brothers and sisters who are believers in the Quran and thinkers Masha'Allah and Insha'Allah from brother Joseph if its worth even speaking about.

Insha'Allah other topics as well I'll post in due time Insha'Allah

Asalamu 3alykum

Offline Wakas

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Re: Vaccines
« Reply #1 on: August 30, 2021, 10:45:20 PM »
peace,

I have researched this topic a lot, as I also have young children. Like most things there are pros/cons. Sometimes they vaccinate for conditions that there is a low risk of catching or sometimes it's not even present in your country, e.g. polio. However the chances of a significant/lasting side-effect of these immunisations is probably even lower. It is often claimed the quality of the vaccine research is excellent but once you look into it it is often not as good as it should be.
So you have to weigh up the benefits/risks for yourself. Fortunately there are things one can do to reduce risk of negative side-effects, e.g. have a healthy diet/lifestyle, space out the immunisations (e.g. only one on a given day, delay some till older), only select the ones which are most important, ensure targeted nutrition around the vaccination time e.g. Vit C, D, high antioxidant foods, drinking silica rich water (binds to heavy metals), and of course after doing your best put your trust in God and seek His protection.

Offline Hamzeh

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Re: Vaccines
« Reply #2 on: September 08, 2021, 01:03:22 PM »
Assalamu 3alykum brother Wakas

I appreciate the effort and the advice you have given. May God bless you and your children.

I know its not something straight forward for one to respond to and there is no clear cut answer I do appreciate the effort. As you stated do you best and put your trust in God, and like many things there is pros/cons. 

Thank you

Salam