Messages

46

General Discussions / Re: The Quran supports a Geocentric view of the universe?

« on: January 12, 2016, 04:52:21 AM »

The moon is completely self-luminescent, glowing with it's own unique light.

If the moon has it's own light then why do we see crescents? Why do we see only the side which is facing the Sun? Is the moon spherical or a flat disc?

Another question. Why do countries which have a timezone difference of say a couple of hours but are separated by thousands of miles longitudinally such as the UK and South Africa see the Sun at about the same time? Does it no mean the spotlight of the Sun is pretty huge?

How big do you think the spotlight of the sun is? I'm all for geocentrism but I find the flat earth theory hard to accept. It may be true but so far it's not standing up to observations.

47

General Discussions / Re: Verse 39:55 Issues

« on: January 12, 2016, 04:42:33 AM »

Bonjour and salam:)

"And follow the best of what was revealed to you from your Lord before the punishment comes upon you suddenly while you do not perceive"--39.55

Isn't all of the Quran "the best"?

So why is it saying to specifically follow the best of what God revealed? Everything that God revealed is the best, right?

I'd like to know the opinions of other forum members on this issue:)

My thoughts are that the Quran not only contains guidance but it also contains good news, warnings, things about historical events, laws, parables and certain phenomena about the physical universe which we can use science to discover and learn about.

I believe "follow the best of what was revealed" refers to the guidance God has given us in the Quran. There are things which we can do which will please God like giving regular charity, praying regular, being humble, etc. and there are things which we can do which will bring us nearest to him (like what many of the prophets did), things which will make us stand out on the Day of Judgment such as suffering in the name of God, going out of our way to help others, forgiving those who have wronged us, etc.

So in short the Quran contains different kinds of things but what we are meant to follow is the guidance which is contained in the Quran. The other things in the Quran we can use to strengthen our belief, learn about our universe and lives, get a better understanding of this reality, etc.

48

General Discussions / Re: Ayat 65 Of Surat Nisa'i: We Owe This To The Prophet.

« on: January 12, 2016, 04:24:34 AM »

Peace Samson

If the using of "Abuse Hafsat" is not intentional, please correct it. It violates Forum policy: http://quransmessage.com/forum/policy

Yes it was definitely not intentional. My apologies to Abu Hafsat.

I'm not able to edit. Can one of the sys admins amend it?

Thanks

49

General Discussions / Re: Ayat 65 Of Surat Nisa'i: We Owe This To The Prophet.

« on: January 12, 2016, 12:35:13 AM »

Abuse Hafsat,

Can you please tell me which hadith describes how to pray?

Thanks

50

General Discussions / Re: The Quran supports a Geocentric view of the universe?

« on: January 11, 2016, 05:36:00 AM »

If the Earth is flat then why is it that when I phone someone in the evening in India it's dark over there but still light in the UK?

The sun luminary is small in relation to the vast earth !

It acts like a lamp (spotlight) that shines downward, locally illuminating as it moves in circles around its axis, coursing on the ecliptic above the earth. When it is over your head, it's day. When it's not, it's night !

Very simple.

If it locally illuminates like a lamp then how come it illuminates the moon as well? How do you explain half moons, crescents, and red moons?

51

General Discussions / Re: The Quran supports a Geocentric view of the universe?

« on: January 11, 2016, 05:09:27 AM »

Earth's flatness/levelness is an OBSERVABLE living FACT backed up by ground-based experiments and high-altitude observational evidence. Hence, the quranic question: Do they not then LOOK ?!

If the Earth is flat then why is it that when I phone someone in the evening in India it's dark over there but still light in the UK?

52

General Discussions / Re: The Quran supports a Geocentric view of the universe?

« on: January 11, 2016, 04:34:54 AM »

Science is only trying to find out " the how the stars,planets...etc were formed".One can take it or leave it.

I understand what you are saying. However I feel it's a shame that people don't look more into it. Most people/scientists assume things to be natural when in fact they are not. When scientists can't explain something it becomes a mystery or something that scientists will be able to explain in the future. Most will never entertain the idea that it's evidence of God.

53

General Discussions / Re: The Quran supports a Geocentric view of the universe?

« on: January 11, 2016, 01:03:27 AM »

Earth started accreting concurrently with the sun and our neighbouring planets 4.57 bln years ago. However during the accretion process the radius of Earth was not spontaneously 6400 km; but rather started a few kilometers long and progressively increased.

What scientific evidence/experiments do you have that via accretion small bodies can form bigger bodies?

Once you look into it you'll find it's simply not possible. When we observe new stars being formed in space we are observing miracles.

54

General Discussions / Re: The Quran supports a Geocentric view of the universe?

« on: January 10, 2016, 07:12:52 AM »

I want to clarify: THE QURAN DOES NOT EXPLICITLY STATE THAT THE EARTH GOES AROUND THE SUN. Neither does it explicitly state that the Earth is round, unless you consider the meaning of the word "dahaha" to  be "egg-shaped". It does not explicitly state any of this.

And it shouldn't. It is not a science book. It is religious scripture. It neither supports the geocentric theory or denies it. The Arabs believed in the geocentric theory at the time of revelation. The Quran didn't aim to change their views on science, because if Muhammad started saying the Earth was round and went around the sun, the Arabs would have called him a big liar. The Quran provided a neutral position on this issue, and there is wisdom behind this.

Sorry, but I would disagree. The Quran makes statements about our physical universe - things that can be proven/disproven by science. I think there's very little about the so called "spiritual" domain.

I don't think God worries about convincing people or changing their views or worrying if his messengers would be called liars. Messengers of God have been killed and ridiculed numerous times. It would be very unfair/illogical if God took a "neutral" position as it would be confusing and people would needlessly waste time debating things - well actually they do that already even though the Quran is extremely clear on certain things.

As I've said before, God in the Quran points out things He has done. Things which are miracles happening before our very eyes yet most people assume them to be natural. For example the creation/death of life, the formation of stars/planets, the stable sea level, the fixed mountains, the 2 bodies of flowing water fresh/sea water. My thoughts are that science will uncover more observations which will make it easier for people to accept the existence of God scientifically. However there will be many who will still refuse to obey God just as the Jews continued to disobey God even though they were shown clear miracles in front of their eyes. I guess this is why God says there some of us who are never going to obey God no matter what signs are shown to them and that even if they were to be returned to the earth they would sooner or later revert to disobedience.

Here's something which I think science will discover in the near future - According to my understanding of the Bible and Quran, the earth's crust is floating on water and it's only because of the mountains that earth doesn't move all over the place. So beneath the earth's crust we have the Deep as mentioned in the Bible. This Deep is free flowing water and is many times deeper than the oceans. This would explain where the water came from for the flood of Noah and how the sea level is kept stable and why we have "land tides" and why when we have earthquakes we sometimes see the land show a rippling effect.

Now if/when science discovers the above, is it going to make the non believers believe?

55

General Discussions / Re: Why is shirk the worst sin?

« on: January 09, 2016, 08:54:10 AM »

My opinion is that shirk is the biggest sin because it is something like adultery where adultery is where a someone in a marriage is unfaithful to their partner.

God has made us naturally hate adultery when it is committed by our partner. We feel disgusted that our partner has lusted after another person, betrayed our trust, shown ingratitude and lied to us. I believe Idolatry is where the worshippers were originally worshipping God but then for some reason they maybe create another god or gods because they wanted maybe more children or land or wealth, basically something their hearts desired and turned away from the true God even though they knew that God is the one who created them and looks after them. God wants people to just, compassionate, sharing, helping, kind, humble, modest and looking towards the hereafter. Maybe the idolaters are not happy with these things and want something more exciting, glittery, grand things they can boast about and abandon the worship of the true God. This I think is similar to an adulterous partner who is not satisfied with their current partner and wants to maybe lust after another partner.

So in short, if you need to feel and understand why idolatry is such a big sin then consider how you would feel if your partner committed adultery with you.

In the Quran and Bible it is OK for you to divorce your wife if she has committed adultery, it's a huge sin.

Take a look at what the Bible says. It gives more details about why God became so angry with the Children of Israel when they lusted after other gods.

I believe one of the reasons God made man have a wife is so that they could experience why adultery is so bad hence understand why idolatry is such a big sin. In the hereafter relationships with people on earth won't matter. They are created only in this life so we can learn and be tested.

The above is what makes sense to me so far.

56

General Discussions / Re: The Quran supports a Geocentric view of the universe?

« on: January 09, 2016, 08:29:46 AM »

My view is that the Quran does support the geocentric model. It would have been easy for God to say that the Sun is the centre of the solar system and that the Earth rotates. But he didn't. The earth being the centre of the "universe" is a clear sign of God's power and it's extremely if not impossible to deny that only and entity such as God could be causing this. I believe God provides clear signs/evidences of his existence and power. These evidences are deliberately meant to defy science and logical reasoning because they are meant to stick out. If things were explainable via science then they would not be classed as divine/miracles. When Moses parted the sea it was a clear miracle. If we could do that ourselves then it would not be classed as a miracle but just a phenomena which people of that time were unaware of.

I think many people don't really understand the Quran when God says that it was He who created the Earth, the stars, created life, etc. When God does something it means it's divine and no one else can do and it's not natural. Take for example the simple phenomena of gravity on earth. Gravity is not a natural phenomena. Only God can create gravity and only he can cause mass to come together to form larger masses. The current scientific understanding is that stars form when dust clouds collapse and what causes the collapse is probably fluctuations in gravity. This is unproven. Scientists have done experiments to get dust and/or small particles to clump together to form bigger masses. They can't. The claim that all mass has gravity is unproven. Scientist cannot prove it. However many people just assume it be true since that's what the media will assume.

It's the same with life. Scientists simply cannot create life from scratch. Life is NOT a natural phenomena.It is only something that God can create.

Look up the science and read carefully what they have found.

57

General Discussions / Re: Testifying that God is our Lord before being born - Quran 7:172. Is this wrong?

« on: February 23, 2015, 09:53:09 AM »

Salam

A tradition of Hadrat Ubayy-bin-Ka`ab which is most probably based on the knowledge he received from the Holy Prophet, is the best commentary or this verse. He says:

"Allah gathered the whole of mankind and arranged it into separate groups according to their kinds or periods and gave them human shape and power of speech. Then He took a Covenant from them and made them witnesses concerning themselves and asked, `Am I not your Lord?' They answered, 'Most certainly, You alone are our Lord.' Then Allah said, `I ask the earth and the heavens and your father Adam to bear witness to this effect lest you should say on the Day of Resurrection that you had no knowledge of this. So note it well that none other than I is worthy of worship and that there is no other Lord than I. You should not set up any partner with Me. I will send to you My Messengers, who will remind you of this Covenant that you are Making with Me; I will also send My Book to you . At this the whole of mankind replied, "We bear witness to this: You alone are our Lord and our Deity: we have no other lord or deity than You."

Do you accept this commentary? If so why?

58

General Discussions / Testifying that God is our Lord before being born - Quran 7:172. Is this wrong?

« on: February 20, 2015, 09:33:05 AM »

Hi Joseph,

I read one of your posts where you state that our nafs testifies that God is our Lord.

It is the ‘nafs’ and not the embryo (biological material) that testifies. This is arguably at a stage when the nafs has not assumed it’s human form (at whatever stage that may be). Therefore, prior (or just prior) would be implied when a nafs is able to understand God’s communication directly and subsequently, respond.

http://quransmessage.com/forum/index.php?topic=1389.msg6417#msg6417

I don't believe this interpretation is correct. Have you considered the interpretation given by Optimist below:

Well, according to me, if  we accept the traditional transalation to mean that this was an incident that took place before the advent of human being,  we will find it difficult to explain  the meaning of the subsequent verse that follows "lest you say on the Day of resurrection, "Verily, we were unaware of this"; or lest you say, "Verily, it was but our forefathers who, in times gone by, began to ascribe divinity to other beings beside God; and we were but their late offspring: wilt Thou, then, destroy us for the doings of those inventors of falsehoods?"    BECAUSE, since NOT ONE human being remembers such a ‘promise’ made before Allah and it does not make any sense to hold anyone responsible for violating the promise.  As per the traditional understanding it would mean that there is no need to send warners and prophets because according to the verse this pledge was sufficient enough NOT TO come up with any excuses like being unaware of the fact or being mislead by forefathers!!  However, Quran says in 17:16 that  Allah will NOT GIVE any punishment to any people or nation or towns UNLESS Allah has sent or appointed a messenger and they are sufficiently warned.

http://quransmessage.com/forum/index.php?topic=865.msg3387#msg3387

According to my understanding God is saying he brought forth (raised) a generation from the children of Adam and made them testify that He was their Lord. The children of Adam already knew there was only one God as did Adam. The generation/some generations after the children of Adam maybe were not too clear or maybe God just wanted them to confirm their belief and He made them testify that he was their Lord. This was so that we can now no longer use the excuse that it was the earlier generations who started off the tradition/belief of having many gods.

I think it doesn't make sense to be held accountable for something which you testified to then made to forget it. That seems unfair and silly.

Thanks

59

General Discussions / Re: Was Adam created mortal?Or he lost immortality after disobeying God?

« on: January 17, 2015, 07:34:34 PM »

GOD in 43:5 is talking about our past life, that is why we are all here retaking the "trial"?

GOD will ask us on that day when we are gathered in front of Him about his revelations/words: Did you examine/study/ aquire knowledge about my message/revelation/words or what is it that you have done?

Let's accept that God is talking about our past life. Then what? Are you saying we need to remember it and lament over it? Dig deeper? How is it going to benefit you on Judgement Day?

God is going to ask those to whom revelation came as to what they did with it. The muslims will be asked how well the followed the Quran, the Christians the Bible the Jews the Torah. It's obvious that you have studied the Quran well. But now what? What's next. I believe that you already know that unless you implement the Quran ie. believe/trust in God and work righteousness then it's of no use.

60

General Discussions / Re: Was Adam created mortal?Or he lost immortality after disobeying God?

« on: January 17, 2015, 08:44:57 AM »

Thank you Duster.

I understand it differently.

Who is GOD addressing here?

إِنّا جَعَلنٰهُ قُرءٰنًا عَرَبِيًّا لَعَلَّكُم تَعقِلونَ all people ( Alalameen)

Same in here:

أَفَنَضرِبُ عَنكُمُ الذِّكرَ صَفحًا أَن كُنتُم قَومًا مُسرِفينَ

GOD is also using the past tense.  -"Shall we just ignore the fact that you have transgressed the limits?"
 GOD chooses His words carefully and precisely. This is not about this present life, as some would succeed in redeeming themselves .
GOD would have phrased the verse differently if not everyone was involved?

That is my understanding brother. GOD s word is complete in truth and justice.

GOD bless you.
Peace.

Verse 43:5 is referring to the Quraish. God is telling the Quraish that by their idol worshipping they are transgressing their limits. It's not referring to all of mankind. If you read other verses of the Quran you'll find that the Christians and Jews are not being warned in the same way as the Quraish. The Christians are being warned that they can't say that Jesus is the son of God and the Jews are being warned that they need to open up their hearts and stop behaving like the Jews of the past who denied Jesus and the other prophets after Moses. Even after God showed clear miracles at the time of Moses quite a few were reluctant to believe in the proper way which is by working righteousness.

If you read 43:3, it says the Quran is being revealed in Arabic so that the Quraish could understand it. Verses 43:6-8 tells the Quraish that in the past God sent prophets to many nations and they were all mocked and God destroyed them in the end. This is warning the Quraish not to mock the prophet Mohammed and to listen to him seriously.

I feel that many believers/muslims don't read the Quran in the context it was revealed. Many believers forget that this is God the Almighty giving revelation to a man (who had no idea he was a prophet and that God was actually communicating to him) living in a city where the majority of the population was pagan.

Good Logic,

I believe you're over burdening yourself with your interpretation of the Quran. I admire your zeal and passion in understanding every single word of God and your desire in preparing yourself well for the Day of Judgement, I believe God loves people with that kind of passion the most. However I think your energy would be put to much better use by using it to work righteousness rather trying to understand things which are pretty much impossible to verify and even if they were what good will it do? When I say work righteousness I mean helping the poor and needy, mending relationships with people, being forgiving, praying regular, fasting more, helping your neighbours (especially if they are not believers), helping the believing community better understand the Quran, etc, etc. These sort of things benefit a believer far more than disputing over revelations of God.