Prophet Mary

[Deliverance]

Salam ladies and Gentleman,
I want to bring up the subject of the prophethood of Mary(pbuh)which Scholar of Islam draw as an ambigious theme.We find a whole chapter named after her "Sura Mariam" we find other chapter named after persons,all of them where Prophets.

In Sura 3 which is called after a familiybanch of Prophets we find an hint of Marys prophethood:
Surah Al-E-Imran

And when the angels said: O Mary! Lo! Allah hath chosen thee and made thee pure, and hath preferred thee above (all) the women of creation. (42)
Only prophets are chosen by Allah(s.t) and her miracles can be read in the chapter 19 which confirm her status.There we find a dialogue between an angle and her ,this makes her prophethood clear.

wa salam and regards

[Sardar Miyan]

Mary's purity & her high profile must been praised by the Angels but it is sure that she was not a prophet. The prophets duty is well defined as a messenger of Got who conveys Gods message to humans.

[Deliverance]

Well she must be very favored by the Lord ,cause she was able to convince Zakaria to step in a deep monologue with god after he saw the miracle for Mary.
Sura 3:37
"And her Lord accepted her with full acceptance and vouchsafed to her a goodly growth; and made Zachariah her guardian. Whenever Zachariah went into the sanctuary where she was, he found that she had food. He said: O Mary! Whence cometh unto thee this (food)? She answered: It is from Allah. Allah giveth without stint to whom He will. (37)"
After he saw this and heard the true message of god by Mary,he was keen to submitt to the Lord and put all his believe in the following Pray.
" Then Zachariah prayed unto his Lord and said: My Lord! Bestow upon me of Thy bounty goodly offspring. Lo! Thou art the Hearer of Prayer. (38)"

Zakariya was childless and he desired to have a child all the time but only then when he saw this miracle of Mary he was able to pray in a manner which he probably never did before.

Isn´t it that prophetlike Sardar Midyan?

regards

[Deliverance]

I am not the first one proclaiming prophethood for women.
"Abu Muhammad Ibn Hazm al-Andaluci

This is a glimpse into some of the intellectual debates Muslim scholars had in the past. This is a debate about the question of the prophethood of women, from Ibn Hazm's al-Milal wal-Nihal. Muslims debated this issue without fear of sanction, and without relying on accepted dogmas. Ibn Hazm (d. 456 Hijri) lived in the 11th century in Muslim Spain (Andalucia). This is a piece from that era. This is his position about this sensitive issue which is the Prophethood of women. He has a strong argument. What follows is his view and some other views of other Muslim scholars such as Qurtubi, Ibn Hajjar al-'Asqalani, Imam al-Nawawi and other Muslim scholars. This piece is very relevant as we try to find out the position of women in our society and under- stand the differences between what we inherited as customs and what the Shari'a wants from us.
                           Nubuwwa (Prophethood) of Women
                                     Volume V, pp 17-19
                   al-Fisal fi al-Milal wa-al-Ahwa'i wa-al-Nihal
                                           By
                   Abu Muhammad Ali Ibn Ahmad Ibn Hazm al-Andaluci
 

(Abu Muhammad said) This is an issue we know of no debate about it except here in Cordoba and in our time. A group of people went on and denied that Prophet- hood could not be for women and made everyone that claims as such an innovator (Mubtadi'). Another group said that Prophethood is possible for women. A third group abstained from discussing this issue.

(Abu Muhammad said) We find no proof for those who claim that Prophethood is impossible for women other than that some of them denied it based on the Koranic verse:

" (O Muhammad!) Whenever we sent before you Messengers to whom we have revealed Our messages, they were but men." (1)

(Abu Muhammad said) This is a verse none can deny as nobody claimed that Allah (SWT) sent women Messengers. The issue here is about Prophethood (Nubuwwa) and not Messengership. Henceforth the need to understand the meaning of the word 'Prophethood' in the language in which Allah (SWT) spoke to us (i.e. Arabic).

We find that this word is taken from Inba' (prophecy) which means I'lam (revelation). So whomever Allah (SWT) tells him about what will be before it comes to pass, or reveals to him informing him about a certain matter, then he is a Nabi (prophet) without any doubt.

This (Prophethood) should not be understood as Ilham (inspiration) which is natural as Allah said in Surah al-Nahl:

" And behold! Your Lord has inspired the bees with this: 'Build thy hives in the mountains, and the trees and the creepers over trellis, then drink nectar from every kind of fruit, and follow the ways made smooth by your Lord.' From its belly comes out a fluid of varying hues wherein is healing for mankind. Here is indeed a sign for those who ponder over it." (2)

It should neither be understood as doubt (Zann) or illusion which none would assure its truthfulness except an insane person (i.e. a crazy person would think illusion or Zann as part of what we commonly label as 'truth').

It neither should be understood as Kahana (sorcery) which is part of what the evil spirits (shayatin) try to get by listening to the heavens and as such get stricken by shooting stars. As Allah (SWT) says:

" And We have always set against every prophet enemies from among satans of men and satans of jinns who have been inspiring one another with charming things in order to delude the minds. But had your Lord willed, they would never have done so. So leave them alone to continue false allegations."(3)

Such sorcery was ended with the advent of the messenger of Allah (SWT), Muhammad (SAAW) (4).

It is not part of Nujum (fortune telling), which can be learned. Nor is it part of dreams which none can assure their truthfulness or lies.

Revelation which is Nubuwwa (Prophethood) is meant from Allah (SWT) to inform that to whom it was revealed of what Allah wants to tell him. This should be understood differently from all the previous cases.

Allah makes to whom it was revealed fully aware and fully knowledgeable of the truthfulness of what was revealed to him - (Exactly) like his knowledge of what he can sense and the (obvious) deductions of his brain - with no doubt in them.

(This revelation) can be transmitted by one of either ways: through an angel that comes to him or through a message directly revealed to him and this is a knowledge from Allah (SWT) to whom He gives, with no transmitter or teacher.

If they deny that this is the meaning of Prophethood then let them teach us its meaning for they will not bring any single proof.

Allah revealed in the Koran that He sent angels to women to deliver to them truthful revelations from Allah (SWT). They gave glad tidings to the mother of Isaac (Sarah) of Isaac. Allah says:

"...And his wife was standing by; hearing this, she laughed. Then we gave her the good news of Isaac, and after Isaac of Jacob. She said,' Woe be me! Shall I bear a child now when I have grown extremely old, and this husband of mine has also become old? This is indeed a strange thing.' The angels said,' What! Are you surprised at Allah's decree? O people of Abraham's household! Allah's mercy and blessing are upon you. Indeed, Allah is worthy of all praise and glory.'" (5)

This is a direct address from the angels to the mother of Isaac about the blessing Allah will bless her with -Isaac, then after Isaac Jacob - then their testimony about the power of Allah and her astonishment of the matter of how Allah (SWT) makes things possible.

This could not be an address from an angel except to a prophet - in one way or another - we find also that Allah (SWT) sent Gabriel to Mary mother of 'Isa - Jesus - (AS) with a message and told her:

"...I am a mere messenger from your Lord and have been sent to give you a pure son." (6)

This is a true Nubuwwa with a true revelation and a (clear) message from Allah (SWT). Zacharias (AS) used to find with her Rizq (food) for this he asked Allah (SWT) to grant him a trustworthy son (7). We found also that Allah re- vealed to (Yukabid) mother of Moses that she shall throw her son into the Yam (river) and she shall neither worry or have grief and promised her He shall return Moses to her and make him a prophet and a messenger. With no doubt this is a true Nubuwwa (revelation) and a logical consequence of our premises.

If she was not sure of the revelation that Allah would return her son to her, either that this was a mere vision or a feeling she had, she would be - by throwing her son in the Yam - committing a crazy act and a heinous crime against herself. If one of us did such an act he would be an extreme trans- gressor or a crazy person that deserves the agony and the (psychological) consequences he has to go through - (probably) in a bimaristan (a mental institution).

Such logical analysis none could deny. Therefore it becomes - with assuredness - true that that which came to (Yukabid) - of throwing her son in the Yam - was a revelation, like that which was revealed to Ibrahim (AS) in his dream. He was ordered to slaughter his son. If Ibrahim (AS) was not a true prophet, and had he slaughtered his son for a dream he saw or a doubt he had in himself, it would be true that whoever does such an action would not be of the Prophets but an insane person. This nobody would doubt.

Hence their (the women's) Prophethood becomes obviously true. We find that Allah (SWT) while mentioning the prophets in Surah Mariam, He mentioned Mariam amongst them and then said:

" These are the Prophets on whom Allah bestowed His favors. They were from the descendants of Adam, and from the seed of those whom we carried in the Ark with Noah, and from the seed of Abraham and of Israel. They were from those whom we guided aright and made our chosen ones. They were tender-hearted that whenever the Revelations of the Merciful were recited to them, they would fall down pro- strate, weeping." (

This is a description of all of them. One should not single her out as a special case, to be treated separately.

Now the saying 'and his mother a Siddiqa' (Koran) does not deny her the right to be a prophet as Allah said: 'Joseph, O Siddiq!'(9). and as is known he is a true prophet and a messenger; and this becomes now clear. From Allah only one seeks guidance. We can also include along with them (Yukabid and Mariam) the wife of Pharao, as the prophet (SAAW) said:

" There are many persons amongst men who are quite perfect but there are not perfect amongst women except Mary, daughter of 'Imran, and Asiya, wife of Pharao." (10) or as the Messenger of Allah (SAAW) said.

Now perfectness (kamal) for men can only be for some messengers -for those who are 'less than them' are not perfect-. His (the Prophet's) particularization to Mariam and Asiya (the wife of Pharao) was a privilege for both of them over all those to whom Prophethood was given from amongst women - with no doubt -, as those who are a degree less than them are not perfect.

Henceforth it is clear that these two women became perfect more than any other women and even if these women were prophets. From Koranic texts we find that Allah says:

" (O Muhammad) , most surely you are of those who have been sent as Messengers. Of these Messengers, We have raised some above others in rank." (11) So the perfect of his gender is the one who excels in his perfection and none of his gender can reach him. They are the messengers from amongst men, of whom we find our prophet Muhammad and Ibrahim (ASWS).

===================
"
Source:
,,Female Prophets",http://www.jannah.org/sisters/nubuwwa.html,29.05.2014

[Sardar Miyan]

Salam Bro Joseph, Please clarify if there were Women Prophets? Bro Deliverance says Mary was prophet so on so forth. I request you & other members to clarify if there were women prophets & if so Mary was the prophet. Thanks

[QM Moderators Team]

Sardar Miyan,

You have been told repeatedly not to ask for individuals to respond to particular posts. They will respond if they wish. Please resist doing this or in future your post will be removed and your account suspended!

Thanks

[Sardar Miyan]

Salam Respected Moderators, As it was surprised to me that there were women prophets as mentioned by Bro Deliverence I wanted to get clarified by Bro Joseph or any other memeber.I am  sorry if you feel it was not right. Thanks

[Joseph Islam]

Dear Sardar,

As-salam alaykum

This matter is open to debate and I do not intend to embroil myself in one on this thread, other than give my humble view which you have solicited.

Yes, Deliverance is correct that there have been scholarly proponents of the view he has suggested. However, on balance, I personally lean to the view that Mary was not a 'nabi' (receiving prophethood).

Much of the view for Mary's prophethood is based on 'implicit' deductions. However, the Quran provides explicit text which arguably refutes this concept. An implicit deduction cannot overrule an 'explicit' text of the Quran.

For example, when the prophetic agency of Prophet Muhammad was described by the Quran it was clearly stated that:

016:043
"And we did not send before you except men (rijal) who we inspired ..."

This cannot refer to 'general inspiration' such as the one given to Prophet Moses's mother to place him as a baby in the river (28:7), but arguably authoritative inspirations in the capacity as a dedicated agent of God. This was only given to men.

This also finds support in the narrative of 'men of the heights' where the reference seems to be to a particular category of people that are described as men. This is possibly an allusion to prophets who have some ability to discern others. Please see related post [1] below.

007:046
"And between the two there shall be a veil / partition (Arabic: hijabun), and on the heights / most elevated places (Arabic: Al-araf) there shall be men (Arabic: rijalun) who know all by their marks and they will call out to the companions of the garden that "Peace be on you".  They shall not have yet entered it, though they hope."

The Quran also provides a list of all the prophets mentioned from verses 6:83-87 by name and then in verses 6:89, asserts that these were those to whom prophethood was granted. Mary is a name known to the Quran but she does not appear explicitly in the list.

There is absolutely no doubt that Mary has been favoured amongst womankind and she was a very noble, righteous and virtuous woman. However, this does not necessarily mean that she was a prophet.

Prophets by nature are given 'authority' (hukma - 6:89) and are able to provide 'news / information' (naba) or 'prophecy': i.e. acquaint or inform a people about God and things unseen as did Prophet Muhammad by virtue of what was revealed to him in the Quran. There is no mention of 'Mary' being able to share such a prophecy with others in the Quran or been given 'hukm' (authority) over a people.

Even in congregational prayers she is only mentioned as one that participates and not necessarily one that 'leads' like prophet Muhammd did (4:102  - "And when you among them and you lead them for prayer / arrange their prayer for them..."

003.043
"O Mary! Be obedient to your Lord and prostrate and bow down (Arabic: wa-ir'ka'i) with those who bow down (Arabic: raki'een)"

As I mentioned in the following post:

"Given the difficulties of managing men in congregations or possible disputes in the community that may arise from them, maybe men were / are more appropriate for the task of religious leadership. This does not make women inferior but recognises the most appropriate gender for a particular task. " [2]

Prophets also have many other responsibilities during a time when falsehood and deceit is widespread including bearing physical responsibilities such as those as leading in wartime and during fighting. This aspect of prophethood is not the kind of general responsibility understood to be given to a woman as a religious authority.

008.067 (part)
“It is not fitting for a prophet that he should have prisoners of war until he has thoroughly subdued the land..."

Furthermore, speaking to an 'angel' or a messenger of God (in human form) does not automatically qualify one to become a 'prophet'. Even Prophet Abraham's wife spoke to messengers / angels (11:71-72; 51:29-30) who were sent to destroy the people of Lot. (15:58; 51:32-34). This does not automatically make her a 'prophet'.

Also, being able to perform, or be part of a miracle doesn't automatically make one a prophet. There are many prophets that have no mention of the ability to perform miracles for e.g. 'John', 'Lot' and 'Aaron', but they were still recognised by the Quran as 'prophets'. Therefore, a 'miracle' has in itself  no intrinsic tie with prophethood.

Finally, it must be remembered that it is the Arabic term 'nabi' which should be relevant to this topic and not the English term 'prophet' which may carry different nuances.

These are just some of my views regarding this matter and as I respectfully shared at the start of my response, I do not wish to enter into a debate about this topic. You have kindly solicited my views, so I shared them.

I hope that clarifies my perspective at least, God willing.

Regards,
Joseph


REFERENCES:

[1] Men of the Heights - Who were they?
http://quransmessage.com/forum/index.php?topic=577
[2] Can Women Lead Mixed Congregational Prayers?
http://quransmessage.com/forum/index.php?topic=164

[Sardar Miyan]

Jazakallah Bro JAI for clarification which clreared my doubts.

[Deliverance]

Salam Joseph and thank you for your view,you wrote"The Quran also provides a list of all the prophets mentioned from verses 6:83-87 by name and then in verses 6:89, asserts that these were those to whom prophethood was granted. Mary is a name known to the Quran but she does not appear explicitly in the list. "

Yes thats correct Marys named is not mentioned so does others do like Idriss ,its not a complete list of all Prophets like you mentioned.

But in Sura 21"Al-Anbiya" all Prophets are mentioned in this Sura and in :91 Mary and Jesus were indirectly mentioned and :92 is telling us that the mentioned Prophets were all one folk.

I agree to disagree with you Joseph no answer is expected from you.

Regards