Author [EN] [PL] [ES] [PT] [IT] [DE] [FR] [NL] [TR] [SR] [AR] [RU] Topic: No Arab Muslim Specialist in Qur'anic Studies has made an English Translation.

Offline Ismail

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Salaam.

The following remarks are taken from pages 9 and 10 of the book available online:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/37354743/Understanding-Quran-Themes-and-Style-by-Abdel-Haleem

(Courtesy, Wakas.)

"Arabs themselves find English translations of the Qur’an disappointing, unconvincing, and lacking in the cohesion, clarity and grandeur, as well as the rhythm and power, of the original Qur’anic verses.

"A comparison between the history and manner of translation of the Bible and the Qur’an into English is useful in this regard.

"The Authorised Version of the Bible was translated by a group of forty-seven, including clerics, scholars and men of letters working together to produce a work for King James I.

"The New English Bible was retranslated into modern English by a similarly large group of English-speaking people.

"On the other hand, the first translation of the Qur’an into English was made by Alexander Ross and printed in1649. He called it The Alcoran of Mahomet, the Prophet of the Turks … newly Englished for the satisfaction of all that desire to look into the Turkish vanities . Ross was not a specialist in the Qur’an or˙adíth, and he did not know Arabic, but based his translation on a French version. He added a letter ‘From the Translator to the Christian Reader’, justifying his translation of the ‘heresy of Mahomet’to satisfy his critics who almost prevented the publication of this ‘danger-ous book’.

"This was the beginning of a long tradition of translations and studies of the Qur’an in English. Some – Rodwell (1861) and Bell (1937) –sought to refute it in the light of the Bible, while others – Sale (1734), Palmer (1880), Pickthall (1930) and Arberry (1955) – brought increasing understanding the qur’an levels of scholarship in Arabic and appreciation of Arabic literature, and decreasing levels of prejudice to bear on their translations – no prejudice being apparent in the last two.

"There are now numerous translations in English, but not one has been made by more than one person at a time, and no Arab Muslim specialist in Qur’anic studies has made a translation.

"The Qur’an’s unique qualities in the Arabic need to be analysed in Eng-lish, and a new approach adopted towards its translation.

"Even the best of the available translations pose very serious difficulties in the proper appreciation and understanding of the Qur’an. The Arabic original, however, will remain to the Muslims the sacred speech, ‘a sublime scripture’ (41:41)."

Regards,
A. Ismail Sait.

Offline AbbsRay

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Salaam,

I myself find the English translated Quran disappointing, as I read through it, I always feel, something is not right here. I always goo and listen to the verse in Arabic to get a better understanding. I get very very confused when stuff is put in parentheses.

That is why I encourage Brother Joseph to humbly write one..  ;)  At least he will get the meaning of thetranslation correct..

Offline Zack

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Salaam,

I myself find the English translated Quran disappointing, as I read through it, I always feel, something is not right here. I always goo and listen to the verse in Arabic to get a better understanding. I get very very confused when stuff is put in parentheses.

That is why I encourage Brother Joseph to humbly write one..  ;)  At least he will get the meaning of thetranslation correct..

You are absolutely correct!! I have heard from a friend the various distinctives of the English Qur'an.......................

- Qur'an that tries to stick very closely to Arabic parts of speech, Arabic word order, and Arabic grammar- one like Muhammad Marmaduke Pickthall’s.
- Qur'an that is more of a commentary than a translation -  one like Abdullah Yusuf Ali’s..
- Arthur John Arberry’s: This translation focuses on conveying the meaning of the original Arabic text in modern English prose.
- Putting the Qur’an into chronological order. For a translation that attempts to do that, we recommend NJ Dawood’s earlier versions (1956-1974).

HOWEVER.... There is not an English Quran that puts aside the biases (conscious or unconscious casued by traditions) which is faithful in carrying the meaning of text into English!! An exercise for anyone is to read the articles on this site concerning Ummi, Isa, People of the Book, the former books, and many other areas, then read translations which are blatantly false!!

There needs to be a revolution concerning the Quran into all the major languages globally! If Muslims really are serious about the Qur'an, this is one area where Islam can learn from Christianity with their global Bible translation program. Despite the subtle biases that are pro-Trinitarian, translators are accountable to large bodies of original language experts to check the accuracy of their work. It would seem accurate translation is not of utmost priority with the Qur'an. Possibly because in understanding the Qurans true Message has never had great emphasis.

I feel these Qur'an translations should also have appendixes that bring cultural understanding of the era of Muhammad. This is so the western English reader can better appreciate the calling and context of Muhammad.

b) Besides this, there is desperately needed a global effort to have the Bible re-translated by Muslims in consultation with original language consultants to bring back the original Tauhid context into the misleading words...

Anyway in my mind this is priority, or else how will the world understand the "qurans message" (-:

Wasalam
Daniel

Offline AbbsRay

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Salaam Daniel,

I agree with you 100%. We do not need somoene who is a scholor to do this either otherwise we will never get anywhere. It is going to take people like us in this site to figure something out and start doing something about it. Many translations I come across has opnion  than the real meaning on many words that is the focus of the verse.

Here is an example #1 of Verse Al-Nisa 4:34 Yusuf Ali: Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in (the husband's) absence what Allah would have them guard. As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (Next), refuse to share their beds, (And last) beat them (lightly); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them Means (of annoyance): For Allah is Most High, great (above you all).
 

Sahih International: Men are in charge of women by [right of] what Allah has given one over the other and what they spend [for maintenance] from their wealth. So righteous women are devoutly obedient, guarding in [the husband's] absence what Allah would have them guard. But those [wives] from whom you fear arrogance - [first] advise them; [then if they persist], forsake them in bed; and [finally], strike them. But if they obey you [once more], seek no means against them. Indeed, Allah is ever Exalted and Grand.

Pickthall: Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property (for the support of women). So good women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah hath guarded. As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them. Then if they obey you, seek not a way against them. Lo! Allah is ever High, Exalted, Great.

Yusuf Ali: Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in (the husband's) absence what Allah would have them guard. As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (Next), refuse to share their beds, (And last) beat them (lightly); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them Means (of annoyance): For Allah is Most High, great (above you all).

Shakir: Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great.

Muhammad Sarwar: Men are the protectors of women because of the greater preference that God has given to some of them and because they financially support them. Among virtuous women are those who are steadfast in prayer and dependable in keeping the secrets that God has protected. Admonish women who disobey (God's laws), do not sleep with them and beat them. If they obey (the laws of God), do not try to find fault in them. God is High and Supreme.

Mohsin Khan: Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has made one of them to excel the other, and because they spend (to support them) from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient (to Allah and to their husbands), and guard in the husband's absence what Allah orders them to guard (e.g. their chastity, their husband's property, etc.). As to those women on whose part you see ill­conduct, admonish them (first), (next), refuse to share their beds, (and last) beat them (lightly, if it is useful), but if they return to obedience, seek not against them means (of annoyance). Surely, Allah is Ever Most High, Most Great.

Arberry: Men are the managers of the affairs of women for that God has preferred in bounty one of them over another, and for that they have expended of their property. Righteous women are therefore obedient, guarding the secret for God's guarding. And those you fear may be rebellious admonish; banish them to their couches, and beat them. If they then obey you, look not for any way against them; God is All-high, All-great.

REAL MEANING... from BJ (Part)
"...As from those whom you fear ill-conduct (Arabic: nushuzahunna) advise them (Arabic: fa'izuhunna) and (Arabic: wa) forsake their (Arabic: uh'juruhunna) beds and (Arabic: wa) separate from them (Arabic: idribohunna); but if they return to obedience, then do not seek against them a way. Indeed, God is Most High, The Greatest"


And this misrepresented verse leads to people who are nonn muslim that Islam promotes wife beating.. What is worse is muslims who read or listen to this verse also think God is giving them permission to beat their woves and some surely do..
There are soooo many verses, and not everyone can read Arabic, that is why we need someone.. Hint Hint..  ;D BJ, to start when he is willing and ready..

Offline Wakas

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peace Abbsrayray,

The issue of 4:34 is discussed in detail here: www.Quran434.com

It also highlight issues with interpretations such as "separate from them".

Offline AbbsRay

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Salaam Wakes,

I know the verse meaning that BJ has and meaning. I am just agreeing with Daniel how the English translation is very confusing and the meaning of words is written by the authors own thinking and it takes away the whole meaning of the point of the verse.

Thank You thou.. I am not married nor ever will go that route so I am not worried about a man beating me...  loool  :D :D :D :D

Offline Zack

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Salaam Daniel,

I agree with you 100%. We do not need somoene who is a scholor to do this either otherwise we will never get anywhere. It is going to take people like us in this site to figure something out and start doing something about it. Many translations I come across has opnion  than the real meaning on many words that is the focus of the verse.


If it is a hard copy of the Qur'an, publishing would be a major venture and require a legitimate endorsement. I am not sure of what sort of control Islam and nations have over teh publishing of Qur'ans? HOWEVER.... it may be a lot more flexible for electronic versions, which may be the way forward.

Wasalam
Daniel

Offline Wakas

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What do you make of this? http://translationmovement.com

Offline AbbsRay

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Sallam Wakas,

I am lost... what is it again? A group of people who want to translate the Quran according to how people read it?

Offline Zack

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What do you make of this? http://translationmovement.com

Based on what they say with the link to their project at http://www.studyquran.co.uk/ , it is very impressive. In fact, I would be surprised if Br. Joseph has never heard of them with their approach to the Qur'an, and it seems their project "Project Lane's Lexicon (now complete)" is the same that Br. Joseph often refers to if I am not mistaken.

If their quality of work is as they say it is, I would love to know a) if they have published hard copies b) If they can publish in other major languages such as Indonesian.

Wasalam
Daniel

Offline AbbsRay

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Salaam Danial,

Is it connected with Dr. Rashid Khalifa who speaks about the number 19?

Offline Saba

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What do you make of this? http://translationmovement.com

Salaam br. Wakas. don't take me wrong, but I often note you giving links to works that are your own or you have a part in but dont make it clear that its yours. Why don't you just come out with it and say its yours? It would be very helpful .....For example, I know the link you gave Abbsrayray is your work / site
www.Quran434.com ... but why not just say it like here is my interpretation etc etc? Also br Daniel mentioned the linkg with the studyquran site but then why not say that http://www.studyquran.co.uk/  is something you have worked with too for example ...

http://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=7717.0

Why not just be clear and say .. here is my interpretation and my views, rather than make it appear like its an external study? After all, these projects are very noble projects mashallah. Just say its your work or you have input in the work pls next time. it just makes things clearer for everybody and those that don't know your work and so then know where you are coming from. 

However I do like root list site very very much .....really useful and a great project but as far as translation goes, there will always be dispute over exact meaning.   thanks Saba  :) 8)


Offline Saba

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If their quality of work is as they say it is, I would love to know a) if they have published hard copies b) If they can publish in other major languages such as Indonesian.


Salaam br. Daniel. I think a lot if not all the work is sourced from a concordance from Hanna Kassis and Edward Lanes lexicons which are already published. I think the root list also links to the excellent qur'an corpus site. http://corpus.quran.com/  The corpus site is something that its part of university project I think. I know br. Joseph uses Edward Lanes Lexicon bec. of consistency etc but i think he mentioned he uses many other dictionaries too including arabic ones, such as he shares in the link below and also can translate directly from the arabic. 

http://quransmessage.com/articles/thobe-jilbab%20FM3.htm




 

Offline Zack

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What do you make of this? http://translationmovement.com

Salaam br. Wakas. don't take me wrong, but I often note you giving links to works that are your own or you have a part in but dont make it clear that its yours.

Ahhh... I am obviously am not in the loop as much as others. (-: Br. Wakas,
a(when will this Qur'an translation be completed,
b)who is the publisher, (or is it only E version?)
c) Is this group open to doing translations in other major languages?

Wasalam
Daniel

Offline Saba

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Salaam br. Wakas. Also another question. Isn't the reformist translation from the free-minds groups? Isn't that something that Edip Yuksel has translated (as part of the 19 group) with someone else? I see that 2 verses have been omitted from this translation (9-128/129). I know Rashad Khalifa and Edip were part of the same submitter group once.  How much influence does the 19 Edip Yusel / rashad khalifa (submitter) translation have on this movement you are referring to please? Thanks Saba