Author [EN] [PL] [ES] [PT] [IT] [DE] [FR] [NL] [TR] [SR] [AR] [RU] Topic: No Arab Muslim Specialist in Qur'anic Studies has made an English Translation.

Offline Wakas

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w/salaam sister saba,

I don't think you get it.

Firstly, the methodology will be extracted from Quran of course, similar to this, but more detailed.

Secondly, the group would only be formed from people who agreed upon the methodology. Even if no-one agreed to the methodology and let's say I did it myself, it doesn't matter, see point below.

Thirdly, the key is it is a stated methodology. No translation exists with a stated robust/detailed and verifiable methodology.

And lastly, the translation would be unique/better for other reasons. Primarily to do with verification, discussion of options etc.


If you know of a Quran translation with a stated methodology, that is Quran-based, robust/detailed and somewhat verifiable, let me know. If you cant cite one, then translationmovement is already ahead of the game by being the first to do so..... if it goes ahead.




Offline Saba

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w/salaam sister saba,

I don't think you get it.

Salaaam .....No disrespect br Wakas... but I don't think you get it.....

Firstly, the methodology will be extracted from Quran of course, similar to this, but more detailed.

Why similar to this? This is your website isn't it? You see my point?? you have already given a methodology in that link that you would expect to follow which is your way of thinking ......

Secondly, the group would only be formed from people who agreed upon the methodology. Even if no-one agreed to the methodology and let's say I did it myself, it doesn't matter, see point below.

Who will be in that group? Free-mind people? 19ers? or traditionalists too? you think they will agree????... or the movement will again be like minded people that agree with your way of critical analysis which you have given the link for above?

Thirdly, the key is it is a stated methodology. No translation exists with a stated robust/detailed and verifiable methodology.

And lastly, the translation would be unique/better for other reasons. Primarily to do with verification, discussion of options etc.

If you know of a Quran translation with a stated methodology, that is Quran-based, robust/detailed and somewhat verifiable, let me know. If you cant cite one, then translationmovement is already ahead of the game by being the first to do so..... if it goes ahead.

Many translators claim that their method is reliable.

Dr. Laleh Bakthiar claims that her translation has "internal consistency and reliability"
http://www.sublimequran.org/

Mazhar Noorani who gives comments on quran.corpus site as well has his own site with a methodology. Many of the times you both don't agree on freeminds..... you can't even agree on number of prayers ... he says 5 you say 2 ....

http://www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/eng%20article.htm

Dr. Shabbir's QXP claims all sorts of things like tasreef al ayat methodology with a shura and a methodology and a QXP which is revised over years and years ....

They all state their methodologies ...to them there methodology is right!!!!

That is what I am saying .. what is reliable methodology to one may not be to another. You just cannot separate an interpretation which is inherently subjective with a methodology. I hope you get my point this time .....Saba  ;D 8)

Offline good logic

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greetings, Saba ,Wakas,brothers and sisters.

I have spent years looking at these so called " Methodologies". I found  most of them  wishful thinking .

GOD , in His wisdom and knowledge foresees all these misunderstandings , differences, methodologies, opinions,etc... And clarifies by sending a "messenger".

How clever are we? Do we think we so clever we can find all the explanations of GOD s words by ourselves?

Qoran says the opposite! GOD helps or diverts people from understanding His words.

How do we know that we are being helped or diverted?

Part of GOD s test is to try us by each others doctrines/ways... So that we can be sorted out..The good from the bad.. The sincere from the pretender.. The selfish from the helpful...

After all is GOD not sufficient to teach His words? Is GOD not capable of clarifying our rites/Deen...? How does He do that?

I know most claim they are sincere in their quest, but GOD knows the innermost thoughts of all of us.

I trust that GOD is sorting it out .

May the Lord guide us to His true path.

GOD bless you all.
Peace.
Total loyalty to GOD
In GOD i TRUST.
https://total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/?page_id=197

Offline Wakas

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salaam saba,

I understand subjectivity, and this is blatantly obvious in my previous posts wherein I mention potential disagreement on aspects of methodology.

However, you still miss the point. Not to worry, here is a simple test that will prove/disprove my point. You said:

Many translators claim that their method is reliable.

Dr. Laleh Bakthiar claims that her translation has "internal consistency and reliability"
http://www.sublimequran.org/

Mazhar Noorani who gives comments on quran.corpus site as well has his own site with a methodology. Many of the times you both don't agree on freeminds..... you can't even agree on number of prayers ... he says 5 you say 2 ....

http://www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/eng%20article.htm

Dr. Shabbir's QXP claims all sorts of things like tasreef al ayat methodology with a shura and a methodology and a QXP which is revised over years and years ....

They all state their methodologies ...to them there methodology is right!!!!

I'm sure some do state their methodologies, to various degrees, but I am confident they will be woefully inadequate i.e. lacking details, few Quran references, and little or no mention of how to verify what they write etc.

The test:
Please provide a link/quote to the stated methodology of any translation that in your view is Quran-based, is the most detailed/robust and verifiable that you can find.

Please note, I do not want any one, I want the strongest you can possibly find. One will do.


We can then examine it to see how many Quran references it has, how detailed it is, if it gives instruction on how to verify it etc.

Then we can determine if this simple concept (of having a stated methodology from the outset that is detailed/robust and verifiable) is lacking or not in existing translations.

Looking forward to your reply.

Offline Saba

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I'm sure some do state their methodologies, to various degrees, but I am confident they will be woefully inadequate i.e. lacking details, few Quran references, and little or no mention of how to verify what they write etc.

Salaam br. wakas ...my point of giving examples was to show you that lots of translators claim a methodology. You are confident that their methodology is inadequate, others may say the same about yours... its a never ending saga.


The test:
Please provide a link/quote to the stated methodology of any translation that in your view is Quran-based, is the most detailed/robust and verifiable that you can find.

Please note, I do not want any one, I want the strongest you can possibly find. One will do.


Sorry br. Wakas but I'm not going do your homework for you. I gave examples to make my point. I've done that. Thanks Saba  :) 8)

Offline Wakas

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salaam saba,

Sorry br. Wakas but I'm not going do your homework for you. I gave examples to make my point. I've done that. Thanks Saba  :) 8)

Thanks for demonstrating my point. As I said several posts ago:

Quote
Thirdly, the key is it is a stated methodology. No translation exists with a stated robust/detailed and verifiable methodology.

Offline Ismail

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Salaam.

The following website may be found interesting:

https://www.academia.edu/5960220/The Quran Translation Discussions in Egypt and the Comprehensibility of Quran Translations

Regards,
A. Ismail Sait.