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Peace.

Is there evidence (from OUR BOOK) that the Prophet Muhammad also followed the books revealed to the former peoples?
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Offline Zack

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Re: Did the prophet Muhammad follow the books of the former peoples?
« Reply #1 on: August 31, 2016, 01:02:54 AM »
Peace.

Is there evidence (from OUR BOOK) that the Prophet Muhammad also followed the books revealed to the former peoples?

That is the whole point. There was never an opportunity for him to follow the former Books because they didn't exist in his language. Br. Jospeh said it so well....

The Quran was only revealed in Arabic so that the designated primary audience (Arabs) could understand the message clearly.

See: http://quransmessage.com/articles/why%20in%20Arabic%20FM3.htm

I believe we are seriously affected by political history. We think that somehow the previous Books are the ownership of a particular religion. World religions are the creation of mankind, whether Islam or Christianity. Muhammads commitment to the former Books was not related to institutional religion.

Wasalam
Zack




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Re: Did the prophet Muhammad follow the books of the former peoples?
« Reply #2 on: August 31, 2016, 01:49:19 AM »
So, in your perspective, what is it you're to follow?

Peace.
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Offline Sardar Miyan

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Re: Did the prophet Muhammad follow the books of the former peoples?
« Reply #3 on: August 31, 2016, 01:56:30 AM »
Prophet Muhammad was called Ummi because he did not or could not read other Books
May entire creation be filled with Peace & Joy & Love & Light

Offline Hamzeh

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Re: Did the prophet Muhammad follow the books of the former peoples?
« Reply #4 on: August 31, 2016, 02:34:31 AM »
Sorry i should of made the excerpt recognizable.  Here is the post again sorry,

Dear moderators, if may delete my previous post  :)

Asalamu Alykum

Dear Zack

It is clear from the Quran prophet Muhammad was not a reader of any scripture before the Quran was revealed.

29:48 "And thou (O Muhammad) was not a reader of any scripture before it, nor did you write it with thy right hand, for then might those have doubted, who follow falsehood"

Did he ever come into counter with the Bible(OT and NT)? I cannot CONCLUDE he did not. The prophet was asked by God not to be in doubt about it when he encounters it.

Here is an excerpt from an article from brother Joseph.

Quote
"032:023
"And certainly We gave Moses the Scripture, so do not be in doubt encountering it (Arabic: liqaihi) and We made it a guide for the Children of Israel"
 
Note the Arabic word 'liqai' (the 'hi' simply being a pronoun) comes from the root word 'Lam-Qaf-Ya' which means to encounter, meet, see, come across, or see face to face. Many commentators unduly make use of the word 'receive' to translate 'liqai' when it is clear that the usage of this word within the Quran is specific to 'encounter' or come across 'face to face'.
 
007.147
"Those who reject Our signs and the meeting (Arabic: liqai) in the Hereafter, vain are their deeds: Will they be recompensed except for what they used to do?"
 
003:093
"All food was lawful to the children of Israel except that which Israel had forbidden to himself, before the Torah was revealed. Say: Bring then the Torah and read it, if you are truthful"
 
Therefore, the Torah was a coexistent reality that Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) was faced with. He was instructed not to doubt it as it was a scripture that was given to Prophet Moses (pbuh) from God to guide the Children of Israel."
[1]

Did he FOLLOW the previous books? In my humble opinion I don't think he was asked to follow them. In fact he was instructed to keep vigilant about what they have invented and not follow their vain desires.

Prophet Muhammad seems like he was given a choice and not his duty to judge between those who approached him for judgment whether it was from the Jews, or all those who said they believed but they didn't believe. 5:41-42


5:42 (They are fond of) listening to falsehood, of devouring anything forbidden. If they do come to thee, either judge between them, or decline to interfere. If thou decline, they cannot hurt thee in the least. If thou judge, judge in equity between them. For Allah loveth those who judge in equity.

If however he chose to judge them he would in any event use the Quran to unravel the truth in the previous Scriptures of what Allah has actually revealed and to be aware not to follow their vain desires. At the end prophet Muhammad would likely judge the Jews with their respective book using the Quran as a guard. This was allowed for the Jews and Christians. But to prophet Muhammad his laws and ways would of been derived from the Quran only.

It seems like from the verses below, there seems to be a distinction between "what Allah has revealed and what Allah has revealed to you."

5:48 To thee We sent the Scripture in truth, confirming the scripture that came before it, and guarding it in safety: so judge between them by what Allah hath revealed, and follow not their vain desires, diverging from the Truth that hath come to thee. To each among you have we prescribed a law and an open way. If Allah had so willed, He would have made you a single people, but (His plan is) to test you in what He hath given you: so strive as in a race in all virtues. The goal of you all is to Allah; it is He that will show you the truth of the matters in which ye dispute;

5:49 And judge, [O Muhammad], between them by what Allah has revealed and do not follow their inclinations and beware of them, lest they tempt you away from some of what Allah has revealed to you. And if they turn away - then know that Allah only intends to afflict them with some of their [own] sins. And indeed, many among the people are defiantly disobedient.


Would like to hear other opinions as well

Salam  :)

[1] 'BETWEEN HIS HANDS' OR 'BEFORE IT' (MA BAYNA YADAYHI)
http://quransmessage.com/articles/between%20hands%20or%20before%20it.htm

Offline Zack

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Re: Did the prophet Muhammad follow the books of the former peoples?
« Reply #5 on: August 31, 2016, 11:05:21 AM »
salamu Alykum

It is clear from the Quran prophet Muhammad was not a reader of any scripture before the Quran was revealed.

29:48 "And thou (O Muhammad) was not a reader of any scripture before it, nor did you write it with thy right hand, for then might those have doubted, who follow falsehood"

Did he ever come into counter with the Bible(OT and NT)? I cannot CONCLUDE he did not. The prophet was asked by God not to be in doubt about it when he encounters it.

Here is an excerpt from an article from brother Joseph.

Quote
"032:023


003:093
"All food was lawful to the children of Israel except that which Israel had forbidden to himself, before the Torah was revealed. Say: Bring then the Torah and read it, if you are truthful"
 
Therefore, the Torah was a coexistent reality that Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) was faced with. He was instructed not to doubt it as it was a scripture that was given to Prophet Moses (pbuh) from God to guide the Children of Israel."
[1]

Did he FOLLOW the previous books? In my humble opinion I don't think he was asked to follow them. In fact he was instructed to keep vigilant about what they have invented and not follow their vain desires.

5:48 To thee We sent the Scripture in truth, confirming the scripture that came before it, and guarding it in safety: so judge between them by what Allah hath revealed, and follow not their vain desires, diverging from the Truth that hath come to thee. To each among you have we prescribed a law and an open way. If Allah had so willed, He would have made you a single people, but (His plan is) to test you in what He hath given you: so strive as in a race in all virtues. The goal of you all is to Allah; it is He that will show you the truth of the matters in which ye dispute;

5:49 And judge, [O Muhammad], between them by what Allah has revealed and do not follow their inclinations and beware of them, lest they tempt you away from some of what Allah has revealed to you. And if they turn away - then know that Allah only intends to afflict them with some of their [own] sins. And indeed, many among the people are defiantly disobedient.


Would like to hear other opinions as well

Salam  :)

[1] 'BETWEEN HIS HANDS' OR 'BEFORE IT' (MA BAYNA YADAYHI)
http://quransmessage.com/articles/between%20hands%20or%20before%20it.htm

Hello Hamzeh,

Thanks for your post. I will begin with using something I just pasted responding to a similar question. The Qur'an is in unity and authenticates the Previous Books, which were not intended to be the ownership of one particular people or religious group. The following verses are a sample that would help confirm this...

Surah 3: 3,4,81,50,48
Surah 2: 41,89,91,97.101
Surah 5: 46
Surah 35:31
Surah 10: 37
Surah 12: 111
Surah 46:12,30

There is a clear and repeated theme of an intended unity amongst the Holy Books from the Qur'an, not just with 1 verse, but repeated throughout as shown above. There is no sense of "Replacement Theology", that is Muhammad replaced the previous prophets, The Qur'an replaces the Bible, Islam replaces Christianity etc etc. This doctrine is imitating the Roman Church, who promoted this doctrine, saying that their structure and truth had replaced the previous. As a book "Authenticating", the Qur'an promotes a view of integrating the message of the Holy Books. The above clearly promotes that.

On responding specifically to some of your comments:
"And thou (O Muhammad) was not a reader of any scripture, nor did you write it with thy right hand, for then might those have doubted, who follow falsehood"
We can conclude from this that there was a time earlier in his life when Muhammad did not read scripture. This is totally understandable. We need to imagine the context of the Quran...scripture was only available in extremely limited quantity amongst Monks etc.

The issue is NOT THE INVALIDITY of earlier scripture, it is a language issue. See: 12. 1-2, 43:3,  41.44  . It was also an AVAILABILITY issue of the text, that caused incorrect oral stories being circulated.

IN saying this, interpretation and the application of scripture for the 21st is another matter. For example, in believing the universal validity of the Old Testament, yet many of the actual instructions within the Old Testament were legislation given to a people, the Hebrews, for their context. Beyond that, the Psalms (Zabur) is full of rich valuable universal truth, expressions of worship of the same God that Muhammad worshipped.

Hope you are following..

Wasalam
Zack



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Re: Did the prophet Muhammad follow the books of the former peoples?
« Reply #6 on: August 31, 2016, 12:21:05 PM »
So, again, in your perspective, what is it you're to follow?

Peace
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Offline Zack

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Re: Did the prophet Muhammad follow the books of the former peoples?
« Reply #7 on: August 31, 2016, 04:43:29 PM »
So, again, in your perspective, what is it you're to follow?

Peace

Hi. Well if you wanted a concise sentence that would summarise what to follow in the Bible, Jesus provided this with the following....

Matthew 22:35-40 One of them, an expert in the law, tested him with this question: “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”
Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”


The outworking of that is in particular is in the early part of the Gospel accounts, eg. Matthew chapters 5 - 8. Besides that, for example Psalms (Zabur) provides us example in attitudes of the heart etc. Anyway... start with that...

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Re: Did the prophet Muhammad follow the books of the former peoples?
« Reply #8 on: August 31, 2016, 08:40:08 PM »
Peace. I'll do so.  :)
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