How can Allah regret?

[Duster]

Shalom / peace brothers Joseph / Zack ......

I try not to criticise the Bible unduly .... something I have learnt from this website and from brother Joseph's writings ...... However, how does one deal with a verse like this of the TORAH OT

"The LORD regretted that he had made human beings on the earth, and his heart was deeply troubled." GENESIS 6:6

...............I think there is so much wrong with this verse ... How can Allah regret a decision He has made such as this??

[Hamzeh]

Asalamu Alykum brother Duster

I hope in the mean time brother Joseph does not mind me responding so quickly or giving my opinion.

I also had the same question regarding the Bible. There is at times I do find certain passages in the Bible go against certain verses or messages of the Quran. I always just figured that they are either misinterpretations from the original text or intentional fabrications. The intentional fabrication is something the Quran seems to suggest happened. However it forgave or passed over much of what had happened. But again despite the fabrications the Quran does not excuse the People of the Book from their Scripture and does refer to the Bible as having guidance and light.

I think once a person reads the Quran it will then be more clear what is falsely attributed to those who are more learnt Insha'Allah.

Also from what I can recollect from some posts on this forum from brother Joseph is that he also may not agree with certain passages in the Bible in light of the Quran. I suppose if one was to use this strategy of reading the Bible in light of the Quran one may recognize what has been falsely attribute in God's name. This may be the way the Quran protects or guards the previous Scriptures by calling itself a "Muhaymin".

Here is an excerpt from a post regarding Genesis 32:22-32

Genesis 32:22-32
 
Jacob Wrestles with God
 
"That night Jacob got up and took his two wives, his two female servants and his eleven sons and crossed the ford of the Jabbok. After he had sent them across the stream, he sent over all his possessions. So Jacob was left alone, and a man wrestled with him till daybreak. When the man saw that he could not overpower him, he touched the socket of Jacob's hip so that his hip was wrenched as he wrestled with the man. Then the man said, "Let me go, for it is daybreak." But Jacob replied, "I will not let you go unless you bless me." The man asked him, "What is your name?" "Jacob," he answered. Then the man said, "Your name will no longer be Jacob, but Israel, because you have struggled with God and with humans and have overcome." Jacob said, "Please tell me your name." But he replied, "Why do you ask my name?" Then he blessed him there. So Jacob called the place Peniel, saying, "It is because I saw God face to face, and yet my life was spared." The sun rose above him as he passed Peniel, and he was limping because of his hip. Therefore to this day the Israelites do not eat the tendon attached to the socket of the hip, because the socket of Jacob's hip was touched near the tendon"   [1]


From a Quran's perspective, this would indeed be an incredulous narrative. Such a concept of God who would need to wrestle with a mortal for whatever reason would be incomprehensible from a Quran's perspective. It would be beyond His majesty who is understood as Almighty, All-Majestic, All powerful and Self Sufficient (5:17, 14-8).

Insha'Allah that helps

Salam

1. The Children of Israel - Who are they?
http://quransmessage.com/forum/index.php?topic=271.0

[wanderer]

I don't think there is any debate that parts of the Bible have been corrupted. However, this is not equivalent to wholesale corruption, nor does it imply the the Bible is too polluted to be of use.

The OT, in parts, seems to present a very humanized portrayal of God (swt), that remains inconsistent with the Quran so we can safely say that these passages are errors. This article by Joseph shows an example of this: http://quransmessage.com/articles/idolatry%20according%20to%20the%20ot%20FM3.htm

Also from the above article: "Believers should study Biblical passages allowing for discernment through the lens of the Quran. This remains rather different from 'picking and choosing'. Whereas the latter implies subjective criteria, the discernment in light of the Quran allows for discernment based on Divine guidance given by the final scripture to mankind (the Quran)."

Hope that (and Hamzeh's excellent response) will be of use, inshaAllah
wanderer

[Duster]

Shalom / peace ... thank you brothers Hamzeh and wanderer. Helpful 

[relearning]

If they are corrupted and can only be a source of guidance through the lenses of Quran then there is no chance for christians or jews ,who dont accept quran, that they can benefit from them. This requirement of quran as a discernment for the guidance nullify all bible collection to be alone to be a source of guidance except for quran followers.

[ahmad]

As Salam Alaykum,

How can we deal with the fact that if a bible passage does not contradict the Quran, it does not necessarily mean that its from God. It may still may be forged.
How can we be sure that such a passage is authentic ?

[Hamzeh]

Asalamu Alykum brother Ahmad


The simple answer is we cannot be absolutely positive of that. However the Quran is not concerned with that as God has already overlooked much of what they did and did not want to rewrite everything over or go over all the passages.


However I think to answer this question better we have to deal with this from a couple different point of views.

First lets look at the Bible from the view of the People of the Book of those who are have not read or understood the Quran.

These people would have no way of verifying the authenticity of the Bible 100%. But it would be upon them however as believers in the Bible to try to do their best to try to come to the best of what they can figure out as authentic and truth as they also understand they do not have the originals and that many changes has gone forth. The canons of the Bible does show that they have already did some research. Whether it was good or bad God knows best. I do not know much about how things are traced back and verified but I do know they exist. They maybe able to do this by looking for old manuscripts and studying the content and going back to the oldest manuscripts they have and comparing them with each other. They can use a more intellectual and academic method by taking clear explicit verses that are repeated over ones that contradict them as a Book of God cannot have inconsistent messages.  They also need to be studied in the original languages or the languages they at least that are the oldest.

As one can see ready on this website, there has been quite a bit done by brother Joseph Masha'Allah that gives the idea of how the Bible should be studied. Look below at the articles and read the "THE COMMA JOHANNEUM"

It may very well be that there is some passages in the Bible that do not only contradict the Quran, but also do not contradict the other passages in the Bible and may not be from God. Only God knows. From a Bible's perspective this is not known. From a Quran's perspective this also seems to be already overlooked by God.

Do they have an excuse to abandon their ways and their covenants?

Now from the view point of those who are familiar with the Quran, there seems to be acknowledgement from God that even though their Scriptures have been tampered with, this does not excuse them from the Bible. Lets suppose if there was not any acknowledgment then we would be guessing as to what the Quran demands from the People of the Book and its stance on the Bible and there would be no way of telling. If there was condemnation then it would be easier to tell what the Quran demands and its stance on the Bible. But there is no silence nor any condemnation, rather there is support and holds the Bible as a guidance and that the Quran confirms its message.

The Quran does go over many well known messages of the Bible that are incorrect and corrects them. This is a blessing for those who accept the testimony of the Quran while understanding the Bible. Also at the same stoke the Quran did not intend to rewrite or go over all the fabrications. Thus the People of the Book or the followers of the Quran will possibly not know for sure and with certainty what are authentic. 

Salam

THE BIBLE DOES NOT TEACH THE 'TRINITY'
http://quransmessage.com/articles/trinity%20FM3.htm

TRINITY IN THE BIBLE
http://quransmessage.com/forum/index.php?topic=733.0

[Hamzeh]

Salam


Just to add to my last sentence

Thus the People of the Book or the followers of the Quran will possibly not know for sure and with certainty what are authentic.  Yet God new very well what was between the hands of the People of the Book at the time of prophet Muhammed's ministry and called them back to their Scripture despite the distortion which leaves a person to believe that the message and guidance still is available in the Bible.

Salam

[good logic]

Peace Hamzeh.
When you say ,quote:
Thus the People of the Book or the followers of the Quran will possibly not know for sure and with certainty what are authentic.  Yet God new very well what was between the hands of the People of the Book at the time of prophet Muhammed's ministry and called them back to their Scripture despite the distortion which leaves a person to believe that the message and guidance still is available in the Bible.

Does this mean?:
- GOD is calling them to what they cannot make out what is authentic and what is not?
-If  Only GOD knows, then how can they possibly differ the truth from the distortion?
-They had books that were left out of the bible, is GOD leaving them books out as well?
-The Jews were going one way and the Christians were going another way,which way was the bible calling?
Sorry your statement is not clear brother?
GOD bless you.
Peace.

[Hamzeh]

Peace good logic

My statement that says

Thus the People of the Book or the followers of the Quran will possibly not know for sure and with certainty what are authentic.

What I mean by that is because the Quran confirms that distortion has been done to the previous Scriptures plus what we have of the Bible today does run contrary to the Quran, then one can assume that they are not "pure".

I had answered Ahmad's question by way of two different view points, because I thought that would be important because there would be different opinions about how the Bible is viewed from those who are readers of the Quran and from those who are not.

From the view point of the readers of the Quran, yes the Quran is the source where one can tell between the fabrications and the truth. It is clearly a guard.

But the question asked by brother Ahmad was in other words "since we know the Bible is not pure, and sure we can tackle the passages that contradict the Quran clearly with the Quran but what do we do with the passages in the Bible that do not contradict the Quran? how can we with certainty tell if the passages in the Bible that do not run contrary to the Quran are authentic since we know the Bible is not pure"

Then its either that the Bible is pure other than the passages that contradict the Quran, or that God has overlooked what we can never know and it would not be verifiable.

The Quran does repeatedly calls the People of the Book to their respective Scriptures that was available at the time of prophet Muhammad's ministry. This cannot be denied.

5.68 "Say: "O People of the Book! you have no ground to stand upon unless you firmly stand by the Torah, the Gospel, and all the revelation that has come to you from your Lord." It is the revelation that comes to you from thy Lord, that increases in most of them their obstinate rebellion and blasphemy. But do not grieve over disbelieving people"


5:43-47 also asked them to judge by their scriptures.

5:15 "O People of the Book, surely there has come to you our Messenger, making clear to you much of what you used to conceal of the scripture and overlooking / forgiving much. Surely has come to you from God a light and a clear book"


The above verse clearly indicates that prophet Muhammad(pbuh) came with the Quran that makes clear to them much of what they used to hide or make obsyre of the Scripture and not everything but overlooking much. "and overlooking / forgiving much (Arabic: wa-ya'fu an kathiran)". This part also makes it clear that God did not go over everything of what they had obscured or hide, but passed over it, forgave, or overlooked it.

I also stated in my previous post that the People of the Book have a duty also upon them to understand their Scripture in truth. How they can do that is best is of course through the Quran.

But from the questions you asked me the question still seems to remains did the Quran go over every single passage that was fabricated the ones that are in complete contrast to the Quran and the ones that are not or the ones that seem to neither be confirmed or unconfirmed by the Quran?

There is also stories in the Bible that are never mentioned in the Quran, how does one reconcile those? They do not seem to be negative nor positive? Some are pious, some are not, again how does one reconcile those when the Quran does not touch on them?

you said

GOD is calling them to what they cannot make out what is authentic and what is not?

No thats not what God is calling them to do. He had corrected what He wanted to be corrected of the previous Scriptures, and left it at that. Are they authentic after the corrections, God knows best. He still tells them to abide by them.

They had books that were left out of the bible, is GOD leaving them books out as well?

If you can understand that there is books left out of the Bible, then I'm sure they can as well and they are responsible to include them.

I'm not saying what they have as a cannon or what is named the Bible today is correct, they may have other books that maybe authentic as well, I've read that there is other manuscripts that are not part of the cannon Bible, but the Quran confirms a passage like the story of Jesus forming a bird from clay by God's will.

I know this is one of the hardest topics I find to reconcile. Therefore I am open to other views, but as of yet I have not read other opinions better than what brother Joseph Islam's perspective on this topic.

From what I assume you believe is that the Bible is no longer a guidance to the People of the Book since the Quran presence? Forgive me is I am assuming correctly.

If this is the case, in what purpose is the Quran a "muhaymin"(guard) over them? There would be no need to be a guard, if the previous Scriptures are to be abrogated in its entirety.

Does the Quran clearly abrogate them or call them obsolete?

Answer the above brother good logic only if you are in that opinion.

Salam 

[good logic]

Peace Hamzeh.
Thank you for your clarification.
When you say GOD asked them to judge by the scripture,if you mean HIS words that He revealed ,then I agree with you.
However if you mean the "bible" as we have it today,then I disagree with you. The bible clearly contains both GOD s words and men s words. GOD is clear that only HIS words are authentic. Look at all the verses that you quoted,they conrtain"What GOD has revealed to you"- Ma Anzala Allahu-...What comes to you from your Lord...i,e Only GOD s words.
Like you said GOD knows exactly what is in the bible and there is no doubt His words are there also.

Now I am of the opinion that the bible( because it contains GODs words as well) guides to the right path also for the sincere seeker of the truth just like Qoran, even though there is men s words inserted/added/written ...in there.
I study both Qoran and the bible .
In both only GOD does the guiding to whoever sincerely seeks the guidance.
Thanks again brother.
GOD bless you.
Peace.

[Hamzeh]

Peace good logic

you said

Now I am of the opinion that the bible( because it contains GODs words as well) guides to the right path also for the sincere seeker of the truth just like Qoran, even though there is men s words inserted/added/written ...in there.

The verses and passages of the Bible I am speaking of in this post are only the ones the Quran does not mention or even hints at.

Ok so since you believe that the Bible does contain God's words and mens words, how does one discern between God's words and man's words on verses and passages that the Quran never mentions or touches?

With utmost respect and sincerity to your beliefs I have noted from the past that your a believer in the code 19 and how it preserves the authentication of the Quran, and without it then possibly one is puzzled on what would be authentic, do you believe or think there is such a method to the Bible?

The reason I ask is because how does one check or verify the passages in the Bible that are unknown to the Quran? Or is it God the Merciful has indeed overlooked much and went over what He deemed necessary and wanted us to read the Bible in the mind that God has forgiven what has happened?

you said

When you say GOD asked them to judge by the scripture,if you mean HIS words that He revealed ,then I agree with you.
However if you mean the "bible" as we have it today,then I disagree with you. The bible clearly contains both GOD s words and men s words. GOD is clear that only HIS words are authentic.

I do mean God's words. The Quran clearly confirms this. Does not the Bible that we have today including the non-canon(which apparently is dated back about 1600 years ago) contain God's judgment?

I believe the Quran touches a little on what it means by judgment by verse 5:45. However I also believe it did not give a comprehensive list and re-write the judgment that was ordained for them, giving the impression that the Bible still does contain the judgment ordained by God.

A couple of the verses in question are below

5:44 Lo! We did reveal the Torah, wherein is guidance and a light, by which the prophets who surrendered (unto Allah) judged the Jews, and the rabbis and the priests (judged) by such of Allah's Scripture as they were bidden to observe, and thereunto were they witnesses. So fear not mankind, but fear Me. And sell not my signs for a little gain. Whoso judgeth not by that which Allah hath revealed: such are disbelievers.
5:45 And We prescribed for them therein: The life for the life, and the eye for the eye, and the nose for the nose, and the ear for the ear, and the tooth for the tooth, and for wounds retaliation. But whoso forgoeth it (in the way of charity) it shall be expiation for him. Whoso judgeth not by that which Allah hath revealed: such are wrong-doers.

The Bible does contain verses that are not acceptable from a Quran's stand point. The Quran did touch on them and its because they stand in contrast to the Quran that's how we know they are fabrications. This is clearly known especially to those who are well versed with both.

I would like to know that since you agree that the Bible does contain both God's words and man's words how can one authentic the passages the Quran does not cover or even slightly touch on? Until you give a clear way of identifying them, then we must read the Bible by knowing that God has made clear much of what they had done and overlooked much of what is obscure/hid/concealed in the Bible (5:15)

I know at times it sounds like that this opinion or i'm trying to square a circle , but this is the best of what I can determine from the Quran's perspective and what I have heard all my life of opinions. Again if there is a better opinion on this concept as a believer I pray Insha'Allah Allah(swt) guides us to a path that is more straighter than this.

Salam brother

[good logic]

Peace Hamzeh.
Thank you for your post and query.
Let me clarify my understanding with the following points

1- GOD  has not left us without answers. We are so lucky,the generations that came after Qoran. Jews, Christians, Muslims...etc GOD is addressing -The Jews and Christians-and all "People of the book" Anyone who  claims they have a scripture from GOD:

Yes indeed  a message/scripture/guide/....To the Jews and Christians and Muslims and....

5:15
O people of the scripture, our messenger( The Qoran) has come to you to proclaim for you many things you have concealed in the scripture, and to pardon many other transgressions you have committed. A beacon has come to you from God, and a profound scripture ( The Qoran).
يٰأَهلَ الكِتٰبِ قَد جاءَكُم رَسولُنا يُبَيِّنُ لَكُم كَثيرًا مِمّا كُنتُم تُخفونَ مِنَ الكِتٰبِ وَيَعفوا عَن كَثيرٍ قَد جاءَكُم مِنَ اللَّهِ نورٌ وَكِتٰبٌ مُبينٌ
5:16
With it( The Qoran), God guides those who seek His approval. He guides them to the paths of peace, leads them out of darkness into the light by His leave, and guides them in a straight path.
يَهدى بِهِ اللَّهُ مَنِ اتَّبَعَ رِضوٰنَهُ سُبُلَ السَّلٰمِ وَيُخرِجُهُم مِنَ الظُّلُمٰتِ إِلَى النّورِ بِإِذنِهِ وَيَهديهِم إِلىٰ صِرٰطٍ مُستَقيمٍ

Qoran confirms all, details all,answers all the questions that one needs to ask about the "one religion" / the deen/message...
"Inna Hada Al-Qoran Yakussu Ala Beni Israeel Akthar Alladi Hum Feehi Yakhtalifoon"my understanding with the following points:

2-God does replace/substitute one "Ayat" with another. i.e one  scripture /revelation with another. 
16:101
When we substitute one Ayat( revelation) in place of another, and God is fully aware of what He reveals, they say, "You made this up!" Indeed, most of them do not know.
وَإِذا بَدَّلنا ءايَةً مَكانَ ءايَةٍ وَاللَّهُ أَعلَمُ بِما يُنَزِّلُ قالوا إِنَّما أَنتَ مُفتَرٍ بَل أَكثَرُهُم لا يَعلَمونَ
16:102
Say, "The Holy Spirit has brought it down from your Lord, truthfully, to assure those who believe, and to provide a beacon and good news for the Muslimeen."
قُل نَزَّلَهُ روحُ القُدُسِ مِن رَبِّكَ بِالحَقِّ لِيُثَبِّتَ الَّذينَ ءامَنوا وَهُدًى وَبُشرىٰ لِلمُسلِمينَ


Yes, GOD "knows what He reveals". He is consistent with His words .They confirm each other. He endorses His words only
On the other hand men s words have "Fabrications/ False doctrines/ Contradictions/Nonsense...etc" in them. GOD s words only contain truth 
i.e The words of the men who come across GOD s revelation and do not really believe GOD and do this:

16:105
The only ones who fabricate false doctrines are those who do not believe in God's revelations; they are the real liars.
إِنَّما يَفتَرِى الكَذِبَ الَّذينَ لا يُؤمِنونَ بِـٔايٰتِ اللَّهِ وَأُولٰئِكَ هُمُ الكٰذِبونَ

3-We have a big chance ,our generation and the coming generations, to start researching/studying /refining what has been going on in history with various groups that came up with multitudes of religions!!!!!

GOD does not err or forget. He has been guiding the few believers throughout man s history. We must regain that "Trust in GOD Alone" to leads us towards that original "true surrender" to His one and only system.
The bible and Qoran must be studied together to "reffine" God s words and follow His consistent universal message that exist in all His scriptures.
We have the means, more than any generation before us, to check truth against falsehood as directed here:
13:17
He sends down water from the sky, causing the valleys to overflow, then the rapids produce abundant foam. Similarly, when they use fire to refine metals for their jewelry or equipment, foam is produced. God thus cites analogies for the truth and falsehood. As for the foam, it goes to waste, while that which benefits the people stays close to the ground. God thus cites the analogies.
أَنزَلَ مِنَ السَّماءِ ماءً فَسالَت أَودِيَةٌ بِقَدَرِها فَاحتَمَلَ السَّيلُ زَبَدًا رابِيًا وَمِمّا يوقِدونَ عَلَيهِ فِى النّارِ ابتِغاءَ حِليَةٍ أَو مَتٰعٍ زَبَدٌ مِثلُهُ كَذٰلِكَ يَضرِبُ اللَّهُ الحَقَّ وَالبٰطِلَ فَأَمَّا الزَّبَدُ فَيَذهَبُ جُفاءً وَأَمّا ما يَنفَعُ النّاسَ فَيَمكُثُ فِى الأَرضِ كَذٰلِكَ يَضرِبُ اللَّهُ الأَمثٰلَ

Yes brother, we must reffine all words to distinguish between GOD s words and men s words, the truth is GOD s words.

GOD bless you.
Peace.

[ahmad]

Dear Brother Hamzeh

Thank you for your reply and clarification. I really appreciate you taking the time to answer questions. May Allah increase you in Knowledge.

Regards

[Hamzeh]

Asalamu Alykum


Thank you for your comments brother Ahmad and brother good logic.


you said

GOD has not left us without answers. We are so lucky,the generations that came after Qoran. Jews, Christians, Muslims...etc GOD is addressing -The Jews and Christians-and all "People of the book" Anyone who  claims they have a scripture from GOD:

Yes indeed  a message/scripture/guide/....To the Jews and Christians and Muslims and....

If your insisting that the phrase "O people of the Scripture" in verse 5:15 also includes the new Arab Muslims in the time of prophet Muhammad or the Muslims of today as well, then I have to respectfully disagree with you. First this verse is speaking about the Quran being a clarification about what has been concealed in the Scripture. Which Scripture? Can't be the Quran, as it's the Quran that is the clarification and second reason is this would be problematic to the new Muslims who were receiving the Quran, as they have not concealed nothing yet of the Quran as they were the first recipients of it.

2-God does replace/substitute one "Ayat" with another. i.e one  scripture /revelation with another.
16:101
When we substitute one Ayat( revelation) in place of another, and God is fully aware of what He reveals, they say, "You made this up!" Indeed, most of them do not know.
وَإِذا بَدَّلنا ءايَةً مَكانَ ءايَةٍ وَاللَّهُ أَعلَمُ بِما يُنَزِّلُ قالوا إِنَّما أَنتَ مُفتَرٍ بَل أَكثَرُهُم لا يَعلَمونَ
16:102
Say, "The Holy Spirit has brought it down from your Lord, truthfully, to assure those who believe, and to provide a beacon and good news for the Muslimeen."
قُل نَزَّلَهُ روحُ القُدُسِ مِن رَبِّكَ بِالحَقِّ لِيُثَبِّتَ الَّذينَ ءامَنوا وَهُدًى وَبُشرىٰ لِلمُسلِمينَ

I'm a bit confused as to why you have used this verse/s to say that it supports replacing/substituting the Quran with the Bible as I notice you later had mentioned you believe that the Bible and Quran need to be studied together. So its confusing because how does the Quran abrogate/substitute/replace the Bible and at the same time you say they need to be studied together? If it does replace it then there is no need for the Bible.

I believe the Quran is more strongly suggesting that only certain directives or verses of the Bible are being replaced by the Quran. Meaning the certain directives in the Bible may be abrogated by verses in the Quran. Example the food that was made forbidden to the Children of Israel for there transgressions is one example.

To be honest I would need to give verse 16:101 a little more thought.

As of right now, all I can say by how the verse is structured is that whenever God switches or exchanges a verse/revelation in the place of another verse/revelation and surely God is aware and in full knowledge of what He is revealing, people respond by accusing the prophet Muhammad of inventing or forging. Then God is making it clear that the holy Spirit is the one delivering it from the Lord in truth to the people by way of prophet Muhammad, and its not Muhammad who is inventing nor forging.


Again I need to think about this more and also why are the people responding that prophet Muhammad is inventing/forging? I need to look into it. But it does not seem to suggest that a previous revelation has been replaced by another thus making the former revelation obsolete. This seems to cause tension on other verses in the Quran which state otherwise.


Verse 2:106 is more strongly suggesting that any verse which God causes to be replaced/substituted/abrogated or forgotten, He will replace with a better one or similar one. Its verse 2:106 which is more supportive by way of replacing or substituting verses/messages as your suggesting than verse 16:101. Although verse 2:106 "is only a reference to the dispensation of certain directives of previous scriptures"

The bible and Qoran must be studied together to "reffine" God s words and follow His consistent universal message that exist in all His scriptures.
We have the means, more than any generation before us, to check truth against falsehood as directed here:
13:17
He sends down water from the sky, causing the valleys to overflow, then the rapids produce abundant foam. Similarly, when they use fire to refine metals for their jewelry or equipment, foam is produced. God thus cites analogies for the truth and falsehood. As for the foam, it goes to waste, while that which benefits the people stays close to the ground. God thus cites the analogies.
أَنزَلَ مِنَ السَّماءِ ماءً فَسالَت أَودِيَةٌ بِقَدَرِها فَاحتَمَلَ السَّيلُ زَبَدًا رابِيًا وَمِمّا يوقِدونَ عَلَيهِ فِى النّارِ ابتِغاءَ حِليَةٍ أَو مَتٰعٍ زَبَدٌ مِثلُهُ كَذٰلِكَ يَضرِبُ اللَّهُ الحَقَّ وَالبٰطِلَ فَأَمَّا الزَّبَدُ فَيَذهَبُ جُفاءً وَأَمّا ما يَنفَعُ النّاسَ فَيَمكُثُ فِى الأَرضِ كَذٰلِكَ يَضرِبُ اللَّهُ الأَمثٰلَ

Yes brother, we must reffine all words to distinguish between GOD s words and men s words, the truth is GOD s words.

May I ask you again "how" can we do that since brother Ahmad was asking about the passages that the Quran does not contradict? You seem to avoid that question, but yet you repeatedly say we must refine God's words from man's words in the Bible.

Or are you agreeing that the passages that the Quran does not touch on, should be read with knowing that God has overlooked much of what had been done also and we cannot be 100% certain they are authentic and possibly do not bare any weight on judgment.

Until you give a clear way of identifying them, then we must read the Bible by knowing that God has made clear much of what they had concealed of the Scripture(Bible) through the Quran and overlooked much of what is obscure/hid/concealed in the Scripture(Bible) (5:15) "

I hope I didn't sound rude brother good logic, I'm just asking because this is the message I find the Quran is giving concerning the Bible which I have to admit it does surprise me but given God's mercy and knowledge I accept it if that is what it is and I also can't think of how to reconcile this concept any other way.

 

Salam