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Offline Beyond Tradition

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ZAKAT
« on: May 31, 2018, 09:57:52 AM »
Dear Brother Joseph Islam,
As-Salamualikum ,

Per my study and review your many articles and answer on Jakat it seems to me Zakat should be collected by the government of certain community . It is not something that can be distribute to any needy person by any individual. It is also understand that there is no specific percentage of the asset or income is designated to give Zakat for a person . But in the Quran in many places says for Salat and Zakat together . When my government is not stand on Quranic decision to direct the society so what I should follow the verse about Zakat . Pls advise your opinion how I can fix the amount for Zakat and to distribute .

B/Rgds
Beyond Tradition .









Offline QM Moderators Team

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Re: ZAKAT
« Reply #1 on: May 31, 2018, 12:53:53 PM »
Beyond Tradition,

Can you please try to post your questions in the correct sections or boards please. This question was incorrectly posted in the 'Bible' section and so has been moved to a more relevant category.

Thanks

http://quransmessage.com/forum/index.php?topic=2553

Offline Narok

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Re: ZAKAT
« Reply #2 on: December 21, 2018, 06:11:43 AM »
Dear Brother Joseph Islam,
As-Salamualikum ,

Per my study and review your many articles and answer on Jakat it seems to me Zakat should be collected by the government of certain community . It is not something that can be distribute to any needy person by any individual. It is also understand that there is no specific percentage of the asset or income is designated to give Zakat for a person . But in the Quran in many places says for Salat and Zakat together . When my government is not stand on Quranic decision to direct the society so what I should follow the verse about Zakat . Pls advise your opinion how I can fix the amount for Zakat and to distribute .

B/Rgds
Beyond Tradition .

As-salamualikum brother,

You addressed your question to another person, but I also found an interesting and thoughtful opinion about Zakat that I wanted to share. (link to the source - https://eng.narok.com.kz/the-quran-about-purifying-expenditure/)

In the name of God, the Gracious, the Merciful

One of the most important prescriptions of God in the Quran is “zakat”. The word is derived from the root “zakaa”, which means “to be clean, obese, justified”. “Zakat” is realized by spending personal means on the path of God. Through this action, the person justifies himself on the Day of Debt, whitewashing him from vices and weaknesses of his near life.

And establish prayer and give purifying expenditure and bow with those who bow (2:43)

And establish prayer and give purifying expenditure, and whatever good you put forward for yourselves – you will find it with God. Indeed, God of what you do, is Seeing! (2:110)

And establish prayer and give purifying expenditure and obey the messenger – that you may receive mercy! (24:56)

…So recite what is easy from it and establish prayer and give purifying expenditure and loan God a goodly loan… (73:20)

This requirement of the Supreme is not new to people. The same command was made before the Quran was sent down, as described in the Prescription.

When We took the covenant from the children of Israel, to serve only God, and to parents do good and to relatives, orphans, and the needy. And speak to people good and establish prayer and give purifying expenditure.” Then you turned away, except a few of you, and you were refusing. (2:83)

God had already taken a covenant from the children of Israel. We delegated from among them twelve seniors. And God said, “I am with you. If you establish prayer and give purifying expenditures and believe My messengers and support them and loan God a goodly loan, I will surely remove from you your misdeeds and admit you to gardens beneath which rivers flow. But whoever of you closes himself after that has certainly strayed from the straight way.” (5:12)

And We made them leaders guiding by Our command. And We suggested to them the doing of good deeds, establishment of prayer, and giving of purifying expenditure. And they were Our servants! (21:73)

As people say, faith without deeds is dead. Therefore, the whitening essence consists in the concrete action of man. I would like to note that sincere believers are often presented as examples and described in connection with this noble act.

Indeed, those who believed and corrected themselves and established prayer and gave purifying expenditure will have their reward with their Lord, and there will be no fear concerning them, nor will they grieve! (2:277)

But those firm in knowledge among them and the believers, believe in what has been revealed to you and what was revealed before you, establish prayer and give purifying expenditure and believe God and the last day – those We will give a great reward! (4:162)

Your patron is none but God and His messenger and those who have believed – those who establish prayer and give purifying expenditure, and they kneel. (5:55)

But if they repent, establish prayer, and give purifying expenditure, then they are your brothers in fulfilment of the duty; and We detail the signs for a people who know! (9:11)

The places for earthly worship of God are only to be restored by those who believe God and in the last day and establish prayer and give purifying expenditure and do not fear except God! For it is expected that those will be of the guided! (9:18)

The believing men and believing women are patrons of one another. They command the approved, detain from the hated and establish prayer and give purifying expenditure and obey God and His Messenger. Those – God will have mercy upon them. Indeed, Godis Exalted in Might and Wise! (9:71)

[Are] men whom neither trade nor deal distracts from the remembrance of God and performance of prayer and giving of purifying expenditure. They fear a day in which the hearts and eyes will [fearfully] turn about! (24:37)

In the Quran, there is another word that translates as “purity”, this is the word “tahara”. If we trace the application of this word and its derivatives, we will see that it is usually applied with respect to physical purity. “Zakat” is an action that leads to spiritual purity:

And when you divorce women and they have fulfilled their term, do not prevent them from having intimate relationships with their husbands if they agree among themselves on an acceptable basis. That is an exhortation to whoever of you believes God and the last day. This is spiritually purer for you and physically cleaner. God knows and you know not. (2:232)

So we intended that their Lord should substitute for them one better than him in purity and nearer to mercy. (18:81)

It was suggested, “O Yahya (John)! Take the Prescription with determination.” And We gave him judgement [while yet] a boy and affection from Us and purity, and he was circumspect And dutiful to his parents, and he was not a disobedient tyrant! (19:12-14)

O you who have believed! Do not enter houses other than your own houses until you ascertain welcome and greet their inhabitants. That is best for you; perhaps you will be reminded! And if you do not find anyone therein, do not enter them until permission has been given you.

And if it is said to you, “Go back,” then go back; it is purer for you. And God is Knowing of what you do. (24:27-28)

Tell the believing men to lower their gaze and guard their private parts. That is purer for them. Indeed, God is Acquainted with what they do! (24:30)

Any sane person who strives for spiritual purification is asked by the question: “How much should you spend on the way to the contentment of God?” It’s no secret that since the times of antiquity, the rates of payment have been determined in the Muslim law. However, as can be seen from the text of the Quran, they cannot be considered as final installations. A person has the right to decide for himself how much he needs to spend on the way of God. The only guideline for this is the following excerpt:

… And they ask you what they should spend.

Say, “The excess.”

Thus God makes clear to you the signs that you might give thought. (2:219)

How often should a believer spend his money on the path to spiritual purification? There is an opinion that this should happen once a year, during fasting. However, reading the Quran, another opinion is formed regarding the frequency of expenditure.

O you who have believed! Spend from that which We have provided for you before there comes a day in which there is no exchange and no friendship and no intercession. And those who closed themselves – they are the obscurantists! (2:254)

The example of those who spend their wealth in the way of God is like a seed [of grain] which grows seven spikes; in each spike is a hundred grains. And God multiplies for whom He wills. And God is all-Encompassing and Knowing! (2:261)

Tell My servants who have believed to establish prayer and spend from what We have provided them, secretly and publicly, before a day comes in which there will be no exchange, nor any friendships! (14:31)

They arise from [their] beds; they supplicate their Lord in fear and aspiration, and from what We have provided them, they spend. (32:16)

Indeed, those who recite the Prescription of God and establish prayer and spend out of what We have provided them, secretly and publicly, [can] expect a profit that will never perish. (35:29)

Believe God and His messenger and spend out of that in which He has made you successors. For those who have believed among you and spent, there will be a great reward! (57:7)

 

Offline Hamzeh

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Re: ZAKAT
« Reply #3 on: December 22, 2018, 09:15:15 PM »
Asalamu 3alaykum

Dear Narok

Thank you for sharing your opinion on the topic of Zakat and welcome to the forum.  :)

Although the explanation of the command of giving Zakat might not be as clear as for example do not eat swine flesh or do not consume intoxicants, one still needs to accept the best interpretation of what is surrounding us.

I would respectfully disagree with your opinion on the basis that you have mingled/joined the interpretations of "Sadaqa", "zakat" and the term "anfiqu".

Regarding your comment
Quote
Any sane person who strives for spiritual purification is asked by the question: “How much should you spend on the way to the contentment of God?” It’s no secret that since the times of antiquity, the rates of payment have been determined in the Muslim law. However, as can be seen from the text of the Quran, they cannot be considered as final installations. A person has the right to decide for himself how much he needs to spend on the way of God. The only guideline for this is the following excerpt:

In regards to zakat as to how much to spend I would disagree with your comment as the Quran does command even the non-believers to give/pay the dues/zakat which implies not just a voluntarily amount and not only a religious obligation. If believers and non-believers are ordered to pay a due, there must be a determined amount from those in authority.

41:6" ...and woe to the polytheists 41:7 Who give not the 'Zakat' and who are disbelievers in the Hereafter "
 
Also when believers where visiting the prophet Muhammad(pbuh) they were also asked to give voluntarily in charity/Sadaqa but if they were unable, then keep paying the zakat which again implies an amount that is set by authority.

58:12-13 O ye who believe! When ye hold conference with the messenger, offer an alms(Sadaqatan) before your conference. That is better and purer for you. But if ye cannot find (the wherewithal) then lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

Fear ye to offer alms(sadaqtan) before your conference? Then, when ye do it not and Allah hath forgiven you, establish worship and pay the poor-due and obey Allah and His messenger. And Allah is Aware of what ye do.

We note many important information from the 2 verses above:

First that Zakat and Sadaqa are not the same

Second that Sadaqat may not always be available and voluntary from the phrase " But if ye cannot find (the wherewithal) then lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful." and the phrase "Fear ye to offer alms before your conference? Then, when ye do it not..."

Third that Sadaqat maybe forgiven given ones circumstances and God knows best who is able and not able. "and Allah hath forgiven you"

Forth is that Zakat is still commanded even in the case when Sadaqah is unable to be given. Which implies that the rule for zakat is compulsory in a state.

In considering the above, Sadaqa is still compulsory on believers who have the means but its on a personal level. The rewards, or punishments from giving it or not giving it will be from God. But it is not to be enforced on people from a government perspective like Zakat.

Also regarding the timing of paying zakat the Quran indicates to pay the dues on harvest day(which points to a system that dues should be deducted from profit gains)

6:141 He it is Who produceth gardens trellised and untrellised, and the date-palm, and crops of divers flavour, and the olive and the pomegranate, like and unlike. Eat ye of the fruit thereof when it fruiteth, and pay the due thereof upon the harvest day, and be not prodigal. Lo! Allah loveth not the prodigals.



For more information on this subject brother I would read the two detailed articles below.

Insha'Allah that helps

Also regarding Beyond Tradition's comments, if one finds that in their society there is no rules for such concepts then one can only do what is voluntary and give in God's sake as much as possible.

The intention remains the same.

Peace

Sadaqah & Zakat
http://quransmessage.com/forum/index.php?topic=2475.0

WHAT IS THE CONCEPT OF ZAKAT FROM THE QURAN?
http://quransmessage.com/articles/zakah%20FM3.htm

Offline Wakas

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Re: ZAKAT
« Reply #4 on: December 22, 2018, 11:54:03 PM »
peace Hamzeh, all,


Forth is that Zakat is still commanded even in the case when Sadaqah is unable to be given. Which implies that the rule for zakat is compulsory in a state.

In considering the above, Sadaqa is still compulsory on believers who have the means but its on a personal level. The rewards, or punishments from giving it or not giving it will be from God. But it is not to be enforced on people from a government perspective like Zakat.

If it is compulsory/enforced in a state according to your understanding, then what is the punishment in Quran for those who do not?

Offline Hamzeh

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Re: ZAKAT
« Reply #5 on: December 23, 2018, 06:07:44 AM »
Peace brother Wakas

What I meant to say by enforced is that the state has the right to the dues owned to them. How they take it is another topic.

As you know that it's very difficult and not always possible to know what is due by the citizens and that it's left up to the citizens freedom and integrity to make the calculations.

As time progresses like anything there will be better ways to establish things better.

God did not impose a punishment for those who do not pay it because it would not be something that anyone would be able to audit especially in those times.

However there does seem warrant for the state to take whats there's as this rule is given from the overall message of the Qurans perspectives Justice.

Also I would relate this question as what is the punishment for a person who does not pay a speeding traffic ticket?

If its been made clear that a person had violated a rule in the state then one would expect a fair penalty to get what is owed.

The state would have the right to take whats theirs if one is found to not be paying theirs dues however there has always been times when the state has no means to look for those who do not pay and also times where there is no proof and is only based on trust.

But that does not prevent a state to improve their system to get what belongs to them and impose any penalty in order to get what is rightfully theirs.

Peace

Offline Wakas

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Re: ZAKAT
« Reply #6 on: December 23, 2018, 09:30:56 PM »
peace Hamzeh,


Also I would relate this question as what is the punishment for a person who does not pay a speeding traffic ticket?

The difference between the above example and the one under question (i.e. zakat) is that the latter is in Quran.

I think the claim that the state is due zakat, it is compulsory/enforced by the state etc is flimsy at best.

Offline Student

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Re: ZAKAT
« Reply #7 on: June 30, 2019, 06:06:45 AM »
Br Wakas,
Salaam,

What's your understanding of the term Zakat then? Kindly share the link/article if you've expressed it already elsewhere?

Thanks,
Thanks,
~ Student

Offline Wakas

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Re: ZAKAT
« Reply #8 on: July 02, 2019, 10:19:15 PM »
peace,

My understanding of "zakat" is "betterment" (positive growth) and this can encompass many things including giving wealth to charity.

Offline Wakas

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Re: ZAKAT
« Reply #9 on: July 05, 2019, 01:19:06 AM »
peace all,

I forgot to say earlier some of the points in this zakat article by brother Joseph are weak in my opinion:

WHAT IS THE CONCEPT OF ZAKAT FROM THE QURAN?
http://quransmessage.com/articles/zakah%20FM3.htm

Quotes:

Quote
However, even a cursory glance at the verse reveals that this verse does not address Zakat...

Yet states the following even though the word "zakat" is not used here:
Quote
We have a clear indication from the following analysis of the verses that Zakah is payable on 'gain' or 'income'. This is irrespective of whether the income is fortnightly, monthly, or annual.

We note that Zakah (Haq - the due) should be given on the day of harvest. This does need not be annual.


Quote
ESTABLISHMENT OF ZAKAT
From verse 22:41 below, it seems to be clear that those in governance should establish a system of 'Zakat'.

022.041
"(They are) those who, if We establish them in the land, establish regular prayer and give Zakah,

By the same reasoning it would mean those in governance should establish a system of salat.




Offline Hamzeh

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Re: ZAKAT
« Reply #10 on: July 05, 2019, 10:12:45 AM »
Peace Wakas

So may you kindly tell us then what is meant by "waatoo haqqahu yawma hasadihi"

This is a command from the Lord. Which also is a duty amongst those who are not believers according to verse 41:6-7.

The word "aatoo" is translated "pay or give"


Also you will see the same word used in verse 41:7 where it says "yatuuna" which is specifically regarding "zakat" which is the same word but in a different form than "aatoo".

You said
Quote
By the same reasoning it would mean those in governance should establish a system of salat.

I do not see a problem with that at all.

As you can see many countries till now have religious holidays and celebrate many occasions that are regarded or rooted through religion and seem very fine.

When God expects those who He establishes in the land and gives them authority to establish prayer and zakat, why should they not do that regarding a form of prayer if one is not established or a system if zakat if one is not established when God is also requiring them to judge the people according to His book anyways.

They can also establish a system where their citizens are given the rights to pray at the stated times and have benefits for mosques churches and synagogue.

This does not mean they have to force everyone to participate or anyone to believe.

Salam

Offline Wakas

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Re: ZAKAT
« Reply #11 on: July 06, 2019, 07:58:29 PM »
peace Hamzeh,

So may you kindly tell us then what is meant by "waatoo haqqahu yawma hasadihi"

I dont take it as anything other than the literal meaning:
"and give its rightful due / truthful/rightful consideration (on) day of its harvest..." (i.e. give what is right to others). There is no inherent link to zakat, this is an interpolation.

Quote
You said "By the same reasoning it would mean those in governance should establish a system of salat."

This brings up various issues. If you are implying zakat REQUIRES top-down/state governance in order to implement it, then can it be done without such? Likewise, same question for salat. For example AFAIK the people of Moses were not in authority in the land yet upheld the salat [10:87]. Of course one could argue they had simple communal governance not a state.
In any case it is rather obvious to me that if one holds the salat=prayer view then one does not require any top-down approach to uphold it. They can do it in their home by themselves. The only argument that I can see that might make some sense is that since there is very little form to salat as ritual prayer, in order to perform it coherently in a  group it would need some sort of pre-set standardisation/agreement beforehand hence a state/governance top-down approach. Of course this means every community might do it differently but I guess one could argue the basic format we have today is the one that was agreed upon during the prophet's time (or passed down from Abraham etc). Difficult to verify but I guess its possible.