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Offline Reader Questions

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Code 19 and asking for Proof
« on: January 24, 2012, 09:10:45 AM »
Peace Brother Joseph
 
I hope you well Inshallah.
 
Whilst I believe Rashad Khailfa was a good man (from what i have read and heard what he has said) like so many of us, he was not without fault and probably made some mistake in some accounts of his Code 19, which other supporters do NOT include, so  what i am saying is that, just because Rashad Khalifa made some mistakes, or even exaggerated? the Code 19, does Not mean it does not exist .
 
On code 19.
 
I do  believe that their is an intricate code, based on the number 19.
 
Please correct me where i am wrong!
 
Verse 15.9 is one where GOD very strongly emphasises that is HE ( 'we' three times ) that will protect the Quran, NOT people who may know the Quran by heart etc. How does GOD Protect it??
 
The other Verse (which i cannot remember) also states the Quran is 'protected in a tablet' , we do not find anywhere in the Quran a statement that the BOOK (ie paper) is protected, rather a 'tablet' If a person wanted to , GOD Forbid, one could add verses/delete verses with relative ease.
 
From my reading, i do not believe the number 19 (over it/on it are nineteen) has anything to do with the number of Angels, the verse does not imply this and it does not make sense, why 19 Angels? How does it 'remove someone's suspicions or doubts' once they are in the Hell fire?!
 
You will know that RK first discovered the code 19, when he was looking into the random letters in many of the chapters. Many of these result in division of 19.
 
Verse 128. I accept i have not examined every verse of the Quran, but i get a good understanding of the 'theme' running thru it. 128 to me, seems to be 'out of sync' it does not seem to be part of the Quranic language/style both in arabic and when translated.
 
We know form history, that there were problems once Prophet Muhammad passed away. Probably from that time, right upto this evening, there is so much distortion about the religion, most people are utterly clueless, have no idea why or what they are following, the Glorious Quran is only good for the top shelf, kept dust free, whilst (as you know my brother) Bukhair and co is what muslims believe /follow knowingly or unknowingly.
 
What is to say, that these could not have been inserted soon after the prophets demise when so much untruth has come into the faith?
 
You will be aware that 19.org (as well as some other sites) have some incredible facts on the code 19 (similar to older books) , for example, the word ''they say'' and ''say'' are BOTH equally mentioned 322 times each (you will know of the incredible mathematical symmetry in the Quran ), IF verse 129 was there, it would be 322 and 323, clearly not a mathematical miracle. There are of course, other facts.
 
I received some time back, emails from other brothers, 'warning that many Qurans are now being tampered with and taking words out, adding words in to tamper with this Glorious Scripture, no reason why this would not have been done 100's years ago.
 
There is, i believe overwhelming evidence that the code 19 exists, and much more evidence (as a result) that the 128 and 129 could have been added in.

You thoughts welcome my brother!
 
Peace

Offline Joseph Islam

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    • The Quran and its Message
Re: Code 19 and asking for Proof
« Reply #1 on: January 24, 2012, 09:15:16 AM »
Dear brother,

Salamun Alaikum.
 
I have never denied that there is any semblance of an arrangement in the Quran. Whether it is 19 or anything else. My contention is that the Quran categorically states that the number '19' specifically is meant to be a 'trial' (fitna). I see no instruction in the Quran for Muslims to explain this number but should rely on clear matters (3:7, 18:22), that is all.
 
For example, I fully accept the Quran without the code and so have believers before Rashad Khalifa's claims. I require no arithmetic reassurance as the arguments of the Quran are absolutely clear and leave no doubt in my mind to its Divine provenance. Nor do I think it is in the capacity of many to verify each and every calculation and to perform all the counts of the Quran independently for themselves. Verification is a requirement for a believer. (17:36) It would take a Herculean effort by most and be beyond their realms of clarification. This remains in contention with the Quran being a clear dialogue which should be easily understood and verifiable.

So my main request was:
 
What other proof can you provide, other than the 19 code theory itself (circular argument), that there was ever an omission of verse 9:128-129 from any recitation known throughout Islamic history or any manuscript of the Quran that has ever existed to our collective knowledge?

You will appreciate, that saying 'that something could have happened' or citing hadith reports as proof is unacceptable as an academic Quranic argument. I humbly ask for clear proof as both proofs requested are directly related to the Quran (recitation and manuscript).
 
Also to clarify why the 19 code theory itself cannot be admissible as proof and that it would be a circular argument is because the theory itself is being challenged. So one needs another source of proof other than the theory. For example, it would be like saying 'The Bible is true because the Bible says so'. You are an intelligent brother, so I am sure you appreciate my contention and what I am humbly asking.

I look forward to any assistance you can provide with my specific requests.

Regards,
Joseph.
'During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act' 
George Orwell