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Offline Student

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Re: How would we know what the Safwa and alMarwah are?
« Reply #15 on: April 21, 2019, 01:37:15 PM »
Salaam br. Hamzeh,

You don't seem to disagree with Sir Joseph on any subject or even minor issues (at least I'm not aware of it). It would be interesting to know if you do, just curious  ;)

Thanks,
Thanks,
~ Student

Offline Duster

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Re: How would we know what the Safwa and alMarwah are?
« Reply #16 on: April 21, 2019, 06:18:15 PM »
Salaam br. Hamzeh,

You don't seem to disagree with Sir Joseph on any subject or even minor issues (at least I'm not aware of it). It would be interesting to know if you do, just curious  ;)

Thanks,


Shalom / peace .... How is this question relevant to this thread? ....Are you curious or something else? ...Some could see this as a disguised question where someone doesn't seem to be pleased?

So many times I agree with brother Joseph and keep some of my differences in view off the forum as they are immaterial as compared to my large scale agreement and appreciation of brother Joseph's efforts......

Should we criticize people for the sake of it??? Should we criticize them despite our huge agreement rather than come to common terms???? Should we not spread the knowledge of those we agree with generally????

Why should anyone prove areas of differences to anyone? Is that what we should do?  Try to expose areas of differences with people we respect for the efforts they have made just for the sake of it or to prove we are using our own brains and critique ????

You just ask a pointless question in my opinion and it seems you are not happy that someone may actually support brother Joseph's efforts and largely show agreement.....

Offline Student

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Re: How would we know what the Safwa and alMarwah are?
« Reply #17 on: April 22, 2019, 11:32:52 PM »
Salaam Br. Duster,

Sorry to see you took my simple and sincere question (based on my observation) to Br. Hamzeh.
If you look at all my posts you wouldn't fail to notice my appreciation of Sir Joseph's work and his personal clarification to many of my questions.
I agree with you that we're (you and I) are in agreement with his works 99:1 - and yet you'll see the minor disagreements in my very few posts but I didn't see (could be there) any with active br. Hamzeh - so that's all the curiosity there's to it - shouldn't read more than that.....I feel it's completely unwarranted and harsh response from you.

Hope this clarifies.
Thanks,
~ Student

Offline Duster

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Re: How would we know what the Safwa and alMarwah are?
« Reply #18 on: April 22, 2019, 11:46:37 PM »
Shalom / peace brother Student..... Apologies if I sounded harsh but I meant no ill will..... you've probably noticed I'm pretty straight talking  and not as polished in my delivery as you are or other members on here.... but i don't like beating about the bush........hopefully you got some of my points too..... imho....not worth highlighting the 1% of a difference if it's not material.  My view is to focus on the 99% of agreement especially when the argument is strong......

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Re: How would we know what the Safwa and alMarwah are?
« Reply #19 on: April 23, 2019, 12:59:43 AM »
Walekum salaam,
Br Duster,

I couldn't agree  more :)

I'm not fishing disagreement for fun....just noted an odd thing and asked....however I learned a lot in debates and disagreements from two learned persons presenting their views - not just egoistic disagreement for the sake of disagreement.
Thanks,
~ Student

Offline Hamzeh

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Re: How would we know what the Safwa and alMarwah are?
« Reply #20 on: April 23, 2019, 06:09:00 PM »
Asalamu 3alykum

Dear brother Duster

Thank you for your kind words on another thread. I also have a lot of respect for you as well and I do have much interest in your views and Insha'Allah I look forward to reading your comments which I find have much wisdom Masha'Allah. May God bless you.

Regarding your comment though
Quote
you've probably noticed I'm pretty straight talking  and not as polished in my delivery as you are or other members on here


You think, because I never noticed  :)

Ive seen lots of your comments are with utmost respect and Insha'Allah you and the others i'm sure could overlook the arguments that went a bit side ways. I probably fall in doing the same thing sometimes. But I'm sure we are all here for each other with reminders when things get a little off.


Dear brother Student

Quote
You don't seem to disagree with Sir Joseph on any subject or even minor issues (at least I'm not aware of it). It would be interesting to know if you do, just curious  ;)

You know brother actually I don't think I ever thought of that before. But to think of it now, I do not think I have come to an article or a writing of his that I would be able to disagree with regarding the message of the Quran. I have honesty found that he has provided clear evidences for his opinions and has remained intellectually honest Alhamdulila. He has shared clear proof from the Quran to his opinions and I have not yet found a reason to disagree with him. There was actually times where I understood a topic differently but after reading some of his input I have found them to be more convincing. Of course he is like any of us who may make a mistake, but Masha'Allah I find his opinions regarding Islamic affairs and studies are derived from the Quran and seem to be well balanced.

I have never found him being biased to any group or sect when interpolating or interpreting the Quran. Masha'Allah. He simply lets the Quran speak and unleashes the speeches of the Quran towards any criticism he finds from all sides of the spectrum be it traditionalist, Quranists, political, historical, finance, family affairs, business, law, etc.

I try to investigate brother Joseph's articles in many ways. One is with the approach that I only know Islam through the Quran. That as I read his articles, I divorce myself from any secondary information and see if they are verified/supported and not pose any violation to any other verse.

I also try to investigate them from the lenses of those who are traditionalists. As you may realize that some of the articles point out to mainly the traditionalist as they are the concern at times and the ones familiar with the topics, as the Quran is alien to some topics.

What you realize though is that brother Joseph seems to even have a great understanding(Masha'Allah) of what the arguments of the traditionalists are or going to be as if he is putting himself in their position for a moment and does not shy away from them, but does indeed challenge them using the Quran. So he not only shows the correct interpretation but also portrays how a misconception has no place in the Quran as it would cause problems in the verses of the Quran which a Muslim should not accept. This as a muslim needs to be appreciated.

Also I try to investigate his articles/opinions and compare them with the Quranists and other opinions. As we noticed there has been more than a few critics to his views, muslims and non-muslims and he seems to justify his stance solely with the Quran while remaining academically honest to the language. Which I appreciate.

I find Brother Joseph suggests that there is a relative starting point from where the Quran needs to be understood from. I agree with this and take it into account. Any truth seeker would agree that words have meaning and a message from God cannot be manifested with lost words that are only determined by what peoples worldly views are. That would be tantamount to a book from the people and what they want instead a book from God

Any rational human should agree that a clear message from God would need an established language to be used as a medium to interpret it. Otherwise the book can be misinterpreted and no one should be held responsible for their faults and the way of God would be mocked at.

Alhamdulila and Masha'Allah I cannot say I have found disagreement with how he views the Quran and its interpretation.


Those are some of the reason where I find that I have not disagreed with him on any subject. I find his works to be consistent and has not said something to contradict himself in expressing his views of the Quran.

I also understand that seekers of truth or students of the Quran do not shy to change their opinions when better arguments have been professed or learned. That being said he has been writing for quite some time now I noticed, and I understand and appreciate that maybe some of his older opinions could be updated or changed.

Salam brother Student