Quran 42:51 talking to God from behind the veil & through Messenger?

[Tausif Ahmed]

Peace be Upon All friends and readers. 

(1)Talking to God from behind Veil

I wanted to know that "talking with God from behind the veil" in Quran 42:51... what does it mean actually?

-> "And it is not for any human being that Allah should speak to him except by revelation(wahi) or from behind a partition or that He sends a messenger to reveal, by His permission, what He wills. Indeed, He is Most High and Wise". [Quran 42:51]

It definitely does not mean Wahi(inspiration by thoughts,knowledge,intuition or conscience) as it has been mentioned earlier in verse, so does that mean Allah literally talks with man, and he has a voice or something similar? from behind veil.

Prophet Moses(pbuh) talked to God from behind veil, so if I am not wrong this was literally a voice of God or something similar? I just want to be sure I am not mistaken regarding this.
God cannot be seen btw Quran 7:143

(2)Speaking to God through the Messenger

Obviously this does not limit to Messengers & Prophets of God, but could be a reference to Angels as well as Angels are also Messengers. Ref to 22:75

We already know Angels come and communicate in Human forms 2:102, 11:69-70, 11:77, 20:33-34 but I want to know has any Prophet or Messenger or any other Human in Quran talked with Angels who are not in human form but their original form?

p.s I think Question (2) can be a separate topic as well, whether Angels appear to humans in Angelic form or not.I could not find any thread so maybe it has not been discussed yet.

Thank You
God Bless All
Peace

[Beyond Tradition]

Brother Joseph ,
Salamun Alaikum. Hope you are doing good and staying safe.
I will be glad if you can attempt to discuss this thread. Others senior member can discuss this thread.

Stay safe .

[Duster]

Shalom/peace Tausif Ahmed ... Does br. Joseph's article help >>>>? http://quransmessage.com/articles/inspiration%20FM3.htm

[Truth Seeker]

Salaam Tausif,

I agree with the way you have understood the verse. The example you mentioned of prophet Moses (pbuh) is correct and it is an example of this 'partition/veil' because you are correct in that God cannot be seen directly.

Regarding your question about any prophet or messenger speaking to an angel that is not in human form, I only have 1 example of this regarding prophet Muhammed (pbuh) where he saw angel Gabriel in his true form and this is in Surah Najm (53:4 - 53:18)

4. It is but a revelation revealed.

5. Taught to him by the Extremely Powerful.

6. The one of vigor. He settled.

7. While he was at the highest horizon.

8. Then he came near, and hovered around.

9. He was within two bows’ length, or closer.

10. Then He revealed to His servant what He revealed.

11. The heart did not lie about what it saw.

12. Will you dispute with him concerning what he saw?

13. He saw him on another descent.

14. At the Lotus Tree of the Extremity.

15. Near which is the Garden of Repose.

16. As there covered the Lotus Tree what covered it.

17. The sight did not waver, nor did it exceed.

18. He saw some of the Great Signs of his Lord.

[Tausif Ahmed]

Aliykum Salam

Thanks Truth Seeker,Beyond Tradition & Duster

I am rarely on the forum & I didn't know much how to use it so apologies for the late reply.

@Truth Seeker Thanks a lot for the reference.


Thank You
God Bless All
Peace

[Abu Hafsat]

 As-Salaam alaikum,

 About ayat 51 of Surat Shura quoted above, as I understand it, the verse/ayat states that all men do not have the faculty to talk to Allah, Subhanahu Wa Ta'ala, but some of His Special Servants do have it. Allah talks to them in 3 ways:--

 (1) Revelation (Wahyi directly sent to Prophets).

(2) By sending some angel as a Messenger

(3) From behind the veil.

 The first way above has ended upon the last Prophet Muhammad, Sallallahu alaihi Wasallam, and the second way also... but the third way is still continued through which Allah converses with His Friends (Awliya)..."from behind the veil". Here, veil means our physical body behind which the soul is always talking to Allah.

Just as an alive body is blessed with  5 senses and other outward powers, similarly an alive soul also has senses and powers; infact its senses and powers are stronger than the physical body but are dormant due to the ignorance of humans towards the reality of their souls. A case to prove this is shown in ayat 172 of Surat A'araf (7:172) where Allah asked our souls...

     "Alastu bee Rabbikum... AM I NOT YOU RAB..?"... all souls replied: - "Yes! You are"! meaning that the souls heard the words of Allah,
     analyzed them, thought about the answer and replied by speaking. That was a time when physical bodies were not created, and all the senses and powers of the soul were active.
 Best Wishes.

[Tausif Ahmed]

As-Salaam alaikum,

 About ayat 51 of Surat Shura quoted above, as I understand it, the verse/ayat states that all men do not have the faculty to talk to Allah, Subhanahu Wa Ta'ala, but some of His Special Servants do have it. Allah talks to them in 3 ways:--

 (1) Revelation (Wahyi directly sent to Prophets).

(2) By sending some angel as a Messenger

(3) From behind the veil.

 The first way above has ended upon the last Prophet Muhammad, Sallallahu alaihi Wasallam, and the second way also... but the third way is still continued through which Allah converses with His Friends (Awliya)..."from behind the veil". Here, veil means our physical body behind which the soul is always talking to Allah.

Just as an alive body is blessed with  5 senses and other outward powers, similarly an alive soul also has senses and powers; infact its senses and powers are stronger than the physical body but are dormant due to the ignorance of humans towards the reality of their souls. A case to prove this is shown in ayat 172 of Surat A'araf (7:172) where Allah asked our souls...

     "Alastu bee Rabbikum... AM I NOT YOU RAB..?"... all souls replied: - "Yes! You are"! meaning that the souls heard the words of Allah,
     analyzed them, thought about the answer and replied by speaking. That was a time when physical bodies were not created, and all the senses and powers of the soul were active.
 Best Wishes.

I would disagree with somethings you said.
Revelation, wahi to Prophets includes the divine scriptures (Quran, Torah, Gospel & so on) but is not limited to this meaning only. As word Wahi has also been used for non-prophets in Quran & is used as reference to Inspiration. So wahi is both revelation & inspiration.

Inspiration can be in form of mental suggestion, intuition or maybe even dream or vision?
As we are informed in Quran, Prophet Moses's mother was inspired to leave Moses(pbuh) in stream (28:7) which mother has the heart to do this? It was inspiration from God to her. Similarly we are told Prophet Muhammad was informed by Allah about his wife telling his secret to other wife, she asked:

And when the Prophet confided to one of his wives a statement; and when she informed [another] of it and Allah showed it to him, he made known part of it and ignored a part. And when he informed her about it, she said, "Who told you this?" He said, "I was informed by the Knowing, the Aware."


So this wahi-inspiration to the Prophet was not revelation (Quran) as it is not mentioned in Quran, neither does the verse indicate that.

This Wahi-inspiration is open & accessible to all humans acc to 42:51
But it cannot be substituted with Revelation-wahi (Quran & other scriptures)... and hence this cannot be argued as argument for support of hadith. Neither is it supported in Quran as that & Quran informs that there is inspiration from satan as well.
Hence criterion for guidance must be Quran to determine any spiritual experience is from God or something else.

So Wahi in sense of inspiration is not over and is open to ALL humans.
I spoke with Shaykh Ibrahim Gamrad who told me he converted to Islam after having spiritual experience in which he realized oneness of God.

Also the second point, contact through Angels has not ended either. No verse of Quran states that. And no verse states this contact is limited to Prophets only, on contrary 42:51 states that this contact is open to all humans.