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Offline miracle114

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Sadaka or zakah in 9:60
« on: September 08, 2021, 03:08:57 AM »
Salaam.

So, sadaka is not obligatory yet 9:60 mentions "obligation".
Zakat is obligatory yet is not the word mentioned in 9:60?
Why is this ?
Is zakat the obligatory subset of sadaka ?
Would appreciate any views .

Peace and thanks

Offline Hamzeh

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Re: Sadaka or zakah in 9:60
« Reply #1 on: September 08, 2021, 11:32:42 AM »
Wa 3alykum assalam

Before I attempt to share my views about your question, please read the article by brother Joseph to understand what Zakat is[1].

To summarize zakat is something similar to what one would recognize in todays world as what we call Taxes.

As you will recall from the article which shares verse

41:6 (Part)-7"...and woe to the polytheists (41:6) Who give not the 'Zakat' and who are disbelievers in the Hereafter (41:7)"

That even the polytheists were obligated to pay the Zakat/tax. Which could be argued that everyone living under the same government/community/land is obligated to this due.

Think of this as something that was even present/in effect even before the Quran was revealed. So the term was not something new the Quran developed. This is shown by that even the Children of Israel and prophets were commanded in the Zakat. It is even possible that all governments needed a system of zakat/tax in order to maintain control not only governments that were under Islamic rulings had a system of Zakat/tax.

Regardless of the faith of the people or the constitution it seems like God mandated that individuals/businesses should pay their share of wealth to the communities they live in or to the government/kingdom/emperor that ruled them.

This was always obligatory and seems to be a due/right(haqq) that the governing body had over the people.

What I think is meant by obligatory when people mention it, is that the system or the governing body has the right to demand this due from the people. They are always allowed to take it.

The article explains in more detail.

What is not obligatory by the governing people is to demand "sadaqa"/charity from the people as can be seen in verse 58:13. However in the sight of God, it is obligatory and one will be questioned concerning their wealth which 9:60 affirms that it is a duty imposed by God.

In Verse 9:60 God has defined where the sadaqat should be delivered to. It also seems like the prophet(pbuh) was also the one who was distributing the sadaqat 9:58.

I do not see a problem that Sadaqat can be a subset of Zakat(not the other way around), which the governing body would also control, keeping in mind that Zakat is compulsory and sadaqa is not according to verse 58:13.

58:13 "Do you fear that you will not give in Sadaqat before your consultation? So when you do not do it and God has turned to you (mercifully), then keep up prayer and pay Zakat and obey God and His Messenger; and God is Aware of what you do."


It seems like there would be situations where individuals will not be able to give sadaqa, while they are still not exempt from paying the Zakat.

Insha'Allah that helps.

[1] WHAT IS THE CONCEPT OF ZAKAT FROM THE QURAN?
http://quransmessage.com/articles/zakah%20FM3.htm

Salam

Offline miracle114

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Re: Sadaka or zakah in 9:60
« Reply #2 on: September 09, 2021, 05:56:06 AM »
Salaam brother jzk for your reply but 9:60 clearly mentions "sadaka" and "obligatory" which makes all distribution points of sadaka mentioned as an obligation or duty imposed by Allah.

(Sahih International ) zakah expenditures are only for the poor and for the needy and for those employed to collect [zakah] and for bringing hearts together [for Islam] and for freeing captives [or slaves] and for those in debt and for the cause of Allah and for the [stranded] traveler - an obligation [imposed] by Allah . And Allah is Knowing and Wise.

(English Transliteration)
Innama assadaqatulilfuqara-i walmasakeeni walAAamileenaAAalayha walmu-allafati quloobuhum wafee arriqabiwalgharimeena wafee sabeeli Allahi wabniassabeeli fareedatan mina Allahi wallahuAAaleemun hakeemun

-Surah At-Tawbah, Ayah 60

Offline Hamzeh

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Re: Sadaka or zakah in 9:60
« Reply #3 on: September 09, 2021, 09:25:47 AM »
wa 3alykum assalam brother

You stated
Quote
but 9:60 clearly mentions "sadaka" and "obligatory" which makes all distribution points of sadaka mentioned as an obligation or duty imposed by Allah.

Yes it is absolutely true that it is a duty/obligation however its voluntarily out of ones own free will.(only when one has the means/money/wealth to do so. Please see below for an explanation). I meant it was not obligatory as it is not required by law to take it or demand it as a right/due from the citizens like that of zakat which is to be taken from peoples profits. However it is obligatory in the sight of God to those who believe.

The evidence for that is in the verses 58:12-58:

O you who have believed, when you [wish to] privately consult the Messenger, present before your consultation a charity(sadaqat). That is better for you and purer. But if you find not [the means] - then indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.

Have you feared to present before your consultation charities? Then when you do not and Allah has forgiven you, then [at least] establish prayer and give zakah and obey Allah and His Messenger. And Allah is Acquainted with what you do.


Sadaqa seems to be something that someone gives willingly, out of ones own free will without any pressure from law but NOT the zakat. Which seems like the zakat is something which comes first.

From the above verses, Zakat does not seem like an option for an individual to freely determine if they have the money or not have the money. It also does not seem to be an option for an individual to give or not to give. The above verses seem to give the freedom and allow a person to freely determine if they can give or not to give.

I might of confused you because I am trying to explain this in terms of a collective Islamic state. Which I assume what you meant by obligatory. For example many of Gods commands in the Quran are to be imposed as a society and not always on an individual or a personal level. Not to get into to much detail but a couple examples are things that people cannot carry out on a personal level is distributions of inheritance, or punishments for corruption, distributions of zakat, etc.

Like Salat/prayer that is also obligatory in the sight of God on a personal level and not meant to impose it or make it a law where people are forced or pressured to pray.

Hope that clarifies my answer. I do think as well though there is so much more information and studies to add to both zakat and sadaqa. Which are very important topics and I think myself included need to learn more about them and need to implement them properly as you know they are heavily commanded by God.


Salam

Offline miracle114

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Re: Sadaka or zakah in 9:60
« Reply #4 on: September 11, 2021, 10:08:25 PM »
Salaam Brother Hamzeh
Jzk for your time

1) could you show me in the quran where zakat is made compulsory to be given?

2) could you show me how "Haqqu" as a right has any relation to zakat? could it not be that "haqqu" is a right of some to others wealth? for example as in 17:26(Relatives, Needy and Homeless)   and 70:24 (One who asks,The deprived
The one who accepts Islam. those who accept the truth of the last day and of Allah punishment are are fearful and those who guard their modesty).

I fail to see how sadaka is not as obligatory and zakat. I would like to understand how zakat from the quran is compulsory to a certain group of people not mentioned in the quran apart from in the "haqqu" ayat. Yet in 9:60 it clearly states sadaka is to be distributed to 8 groups of people made an obligation by Allah in the same verse.

Nobody knows what zakah is and who it goes to except

a) by quran followers using the "haqqu" ayat
b) by traditionalists using 9:60 where is clearly mentions sadaka as obligatory. Zakat is not even mentioned by name.

Regards and Peace

Offline miracle114

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Re: Sadaka or zakah in 9:60
« Reply #5 on: September 11, 2021, 10:23:37 PM »
Salaam Hamzeh

Regarding 41:6/7 where you mention that polytheists are meant to pay zakat i understand this differently
In this Allah is condemning 3 separate types of people

1) The polythesists
2) Those who do not pay zakat
3) those who do not believe in the hereafter

because in this ayat

9:5
Sahih International: And when the sacred months have passed, then kill the polytheists wherever you find them and capture them and besiege them and sit in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they should repent, establish prayer, and give zakah, let them [go] on their way. Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful

9:11
Sahih International: But if they repent, establish prayer, and give zakah, then they are your brothers in religion; and We detail the verses for a people who know.

both verses specify that they dont remain polythesits.

Peace




Offline miracle114

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Re: Sadaka or zakah in 9:60
« Reply #6 on: September 12, 2021, 02:32:20 PM »
Salaam brother Hamzeh
Apoloyi just saw your point about 58:13.
Yes it seems zakat is mandatory as Allah is saying "Pay the zakat" in all Ayat I don't know how I missed it and in 58:13 the option sadaka is an option

Jzk and peace Brother

Offline Hamzeh

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Re: Sadaka or zakah in 9:60
« Reply #7 on: September 30, 2021, 05:32:43 AM »
Assalamu 3alykum brother Miracle114

I just wanted to point out something to you which I think you will find useful Insha'Allah

You stated that in 41:6/7 God is referring to 3 separate types people.

That is not the case here. The subject is set at the end of verse 41:6 which are the polytheists(mushrikeen) and then God continues to give detail about the same ones who do not give the zakkat which is referenced by the term "Allatheena(those) " which is a reference back to the polytheists(mushrikeen) and then continues to detail them more by stating that they are also in the hereafter disbelievers.

An example of this way of reading can also be seen in 2:2-5

The subject is set out in the second verse the "muttaqeena"(those who are conscience) then the remaining verses up to verse 5 describe their attributes/beliefs/actions and their status in God's view.

Hope that helps Insha'Allah

Salam